08 Sep 2019 21:58:44
Leafs trade Muzzin
Blues trade Pietrangelo

Hard to say who the better player is. Muzzin has come 11th Norris voting three years alone. That’s better than Pietrangelo’s record the last three years. Stats are similar. Both are UFA next year. Leafs need an RHD and Blues could use a boost at LHD, so both teams trade from area of strength to address area of need. Personally? I think blues should add. Muzzin is the better player, and the Norris voting ranking would seem to confirm this.

08 Sep 2019 22:26:15
LGM

Go to Carolian and steal a RHD from them
Hyman + prospect for Pesce. Cleans up Carolina salary cap problem

Kapanen for Pesce strait up.

08 Sep 2019 23:20:04
Marincin for parayko?
Tough to argue who is better
Fill needs for both sides
Both ufa next year
May be off a bit perhaps St. Louis adds. Someone like the iffy prospect Thomas?
👍.

09 Sep 2019 02:34:40
Lol I understand the reasoning behind it as both UFA next year but no. I don't think the blues ever, ever agree to this.

09 Sep 2019 06:55:32
Why not? It’s a great trade.

Is Pietrangelo really all that much better though? Or do you only think he is. Muzzin’s stats are very much online with Pietrangelo, and in some areas, are better. 11th in Norris voting three years in a row, he was top 25 defenseman all year last year. Pietrangelo wasn’t even in the top 50 most of last year. Muzzin and Pietrangelo also make close to the same. And that is a good indication gm’s value them both about equal.

Muzzin is a very valuable player, and all the stats and Norris voting seem to support him as such. He’s very underrated here. Look what Dubas has to pay in terms of picks/ prospects. That alone should tell you how valuable he is.

09 Sep 2019 07:21:24
Muzzin for petro lol. Does your homerism know no bounds lol. Blues y2k laughs then tells dubas to lose his number.

09 Sep 2019 10:22:37
No redwing. This post was meant for you. I wanted you to see just how good Muzzin really is. I was holing you would gain a little respect for other teams rams players. There actually are other players in the nhl, some of who are actually better players than some of the Blues. Muzzins stats really are in line with Pietrangelo’s and 11th in Norris voting three years in a row is better than Pietrangelo. But you are so wrapped up in your own Blue’s bubble world that it is easier to dismiss any proposal as garbage, rather than take two minutes to check the stats and see what the other player has to offer.

If Pietrangelo is so much better than Muzzin, the. Show me. Show me the numbers over the last three years that makes Pietrangelo so much better than Muzzin. Put up the stats here for everyone to see.

09 Sep 2019 11:35:00
Muzzin even has more stanley cups!

09 Sep 2019 11:41:21
Leafs gm the entire league's fan base knows petro is better. I don't have to show you a dam thing. Lol keep up the homerism. It truly is funny and puts a smile on my face lol muzzin better than petro. Hood luck with that and your soon to be first round exit. Lol.

09 Sep 2019 16:24:05
if you feel I am wrong then I encourage you to post it on the main nhl-trade-rumors. com site. Good luck, hopefully they don't ream you that much. LOL.

09 Sep 2019 16:41:34
I know Pietrangelo is your hero RedWing. And it’s always hard on little kids when they realize their hero isn their as good as they used to be. Watching Pietrangelo fall down the rankings the last few years must have been hard on you so far. The realization that there are other teams with better players than your hero.

The entire league’s fan base doesn’t know sh*t. I’m more impressed by the professionals who analyze the game and know what they are talking about. And apparently the professionals, who actually get paid for their opinion, all tend to think Muzzin is better than Pietrangelo.

09 Sep 2019 16:47:27
So if it’s so obvious Pietrangelo is better than Muzzin, where’s the proof RedWing? A vague comment about how everyone knows Pietrangelo is better proves nothing.

09 Sep 2019 17:26:00
ok here we go. I will use various stats to prove my point. Though I can not post visuals so I would look for hero and warrior charts that show petro is he dominate player.

Per Compare players on frozenpool dot dobbersports dot com

petro si younger and won 25 out of 36 categories. I will not list them go look.

petro had 13 goals 28 assists in 71 games for a .58 PPG%
Muzzin had 9g 28a in 80 games for a .46 ppg%

Petro had 3g 16a in 26 playoff games for a .73ppg%
Muzzin had 0g 2a in 7 playoff games for a .28ppg%

sporting news dot com ranks the following
petro #6
muzzin not ranked

nhl fantasy ranks as follows

petro #18
Muzzin #40

There are just so many stats the petro is better at it could take me all day to post them. Feel free to prove me wrong.

Also besides points parayko beats muzzin in just about every stat too.

09 Sep 2019 18:45:48
I would keep Muzzin over Parayko.

09 Sep 2019 18:45:55
go to advanced stats redwing1

over the course of the last 7 years Pietroangelo and Muzzin are almost identical. in fact Muzzin is better in possesion numbers and those are the stats I like.

Muzzin has better defensive zone numbers while Pietro has better offensive zone numbers because he plays powerplays.

Just go to advanced stats and if you can comprehend what those numbers suggest than your argument has to change as Pietro and Muzzin are very simular by the numbers.

if pietro didn't play for st. louis and muzzin didn't play for the leafs your thought process would change. i can see past the team players play for. stats justify all my arguments not the logo on the front of their jersey.

09 Sep 2019 18:47:15
redwing1
all the stats you showed are only offensive stats. if you played the game youd know defensive stats matter too!

09 Sep 2019 19:25:16
They do and petros defensive stats are also better than muzzins. Show me any stat where muzzin is better than petro and i will show you 10 more that say differently. like I said they compared petro and muzzin and out of 36 categories petro won 26 of them. So that's 70% of the stat categories. So seriously if you think he muzzin is better i dare you to post it on main boards. let's see how badly you get roasted.

09 Sep 2019 20:08:11
Um, I’m not sure, but last I checked, Muzzin and Pietrangelo’s play defense. that's what their job title is anyway. Those headline numbers you throw up are for only one year, and don’t even take into account any important numbers that actually matter to a GM. Even those headline numbers you put up aren’t even significantly different.

09 Sep 2019 20:52:46
Last 7 year muzzin vs pietrangelo advanced stats

Corsi% puck control Muzzin 6-1
Fenwick% shots+misses muzzin wins 5-2
PDO. Shooting% save%. Pietrangelo wins 4-3
Sthr% shots through %. Pietrangelo wins 5-2
Corsi differancial. Muzzin wins 6-1
Fenwick differancial. Muzzin wins 7-0
Hits+blocks+takeaways-giveaways. Muzzin wins 4-3

Playoffs in cup winnng year
Muzzin 26gms 6g 6a 54.1 corsi 52.8 fenwick 102.6PDO h+b+t-g=78
Pietro. 26gms 3g 16a 52.2 corsi 51.6 fenwick 100.5PDO h+b+t-g=73

They are pretty close but overall muzzin wins.

09 Sep 2019 22:03:55
It makes me laugh how much your guys narrative changes to fit what bull crap line you are spewing. Their isn't a single person that isn't always fam that would take muzzin over parayko let alone petro. You guys are pure homers.

09 Sep 2019 22:11:45
Redwing1 why is it when we get into a disagreement you always tell me to go to the main board. I don't need others to make a point for me. Seems once you start losing or can't comprehend what we are discussing you simply say go to the main board.

Do you always need others to argue for you when you can't anymore?

09 Sep 2019 22:57:17
You’re missing the whole point of the post here RedWing. It’s not so much as who is better. It’s a matter of showing respect to players on other teams. Pietrangelo is a great defenseman. But so is Muzzin. The whole point of the post was to show that Muzzin is comparable to Pietrangelo. To get you to look and see for yourself that there are players comparable. Maybe Pietrangelo does come out slightly ahead on the stats. But he’s not so far ahead as to say there is no comparison.

Muzzzin came 11th in Norris voting three years in a row. You said he wasn’t Norris quality. I’m just showing you that yes, in fact, he is Norris candidate.

09 Sep 2019 23:09:18
Lol Leafsgm. Bad post. Give it up

Why does nobody reply to my trade proposal? It’s a real gem.?

10 Sep 2019 01:30:36
It makes me laugh how when one person doesn't understand certain stats he calls them bull crap lines to fit our narritive.

Sorry if you don't know advanced stats. I can't help that. These stats have creeped into hockey over the ladt decade and now they play a crucial role in voting on players for awards and their contracts.

Sorry that hockey has changed but stats are stats and aren't just some bull crap line i use to fit my narritive.

10 Sep 2019 01:35:09
Mph
Are you meaning the Marincin for Parayko and possibly thomas?

I mean as a leaf fan odviously i want it to happen. We all know st. louis would think it was a prank call.

Id say crazier things have happened but i really wouldn't believe that statement

Is that a good enough response to your real gem?

10 Sep 2019 01:58:54
Oh yeah,

I showed 7 advanced stats categories that showed Muzzin was 5-2 better at than peitroangelo

Im owed 30 stats that will show me differantly.

10 Sep 2019 02:47:24
@mph

You’re right. It’s like arguing with the wind. It’s not so much the post is a bad prop. I can’t be bothered to defend all my crappy props. This was posted entirely for RedWings benefit because he says Muzzin isn’t Norris candidate. I was just trying to show that he is. 11th in voting three years in a row sounds a lot like a Norris candidate to me. But hey, whatever. It got the forum talking. And at minimal, it got RedWing to at least look at the stats and compare, even though he is approaching it the wrong way. This prop was never meant as a who’s best prop. It was simply something to get discussion flowing. And it did. Lots o good responses here. It was a hot topic. Will definitely return to this one again after season starts. I got a new team to hate on now. Lol. Hope Muzzin has a standout year and knocks it out of the parking lot.

10 Sep 2019 11:40:21
Over the past decade advanced stats has become quite instrumental n determining someones overall play. Lots of statisticians have been hired by every team from midget all the way up to the pro ranks to judge players not just on points they get but their overall ability with and without the puck.

This is why smaller players have filtered their way onto pro teams while big slow players are slowly getting filtered out. I don't always agree with this but as far as advanced stats are concerned it is what it is.

Only looking at offensive stats is now considered old way thinking and wrong. Players get money based on advanced stats and then their goals and points.
This is why ryan oreilly won the frank selke because his advanced stats said he was the best at what he does for a defensive forward. If we judged him by points well then he gets 10-20 less points per games played. Does that mean he isn't as good as a point per game guy? Redwing1 by your logic it does. However, its 2019 and you would be wrong.

Learn the other advanced stats before arguing it might help paint you the overall picture.

10 Sep 2019 12:45:29
Lets be honest here. out of all the BS that has been talked about I objectively moved the question at hand to the main boards.

Everyone picked petro and parayko over muzzin. The fact that you fools are still trying to find anything that fits your narrative is amazing. LOL good luck with the super homerism that goes on here. Its straight laughable and I get nothing but enjoyment out of your deluisions.

10 Sep 2019 14:41:21
I don't know if he comes on these sites but John Vogl from the athletic thinks Jake Muzzin was better than Pietrangelo last season. he gave him a 3rd place vote. guess he doesn't know as much as you though since he gets paid to vote.

i don't think Muzzin is better than Pietrangelo but some of his advanced stats would suggest he is in some categories and at least 1 voter seems to like him more.

Both have been instrumental in their teams winning a cup.