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22 Oct 2020 15:40:14
Last season of marner. The salary bar is too high for what he brings. Tavares was a mistake as well but he plays Center.



BUFFALO Ristolainen Sam Reinhart. Jack Quinn and first round 2021

Agree1 Disagree0

22 Oct 2020 16:27:59
Senators sign brown 3 years $3.6 a season. I’m happy Connor brown but that contract Ottawa will regret max brown is a 2 million a season player. Hyman can now ask 4.5 million based on Connor brown deal ridiculous.

22 Oct 2020 16:44:15
Davidmackin I totally disagree. The reason they signed him is because they know that on a team that really hasn’t done much in like 2-3 season, he can be that leader in the locker room and that guy that will average 50-60 points in your team. In Toronto he didn’t contribute much which is because of all the talent that they got on that team and the guys upfront are stacked. When he got traded I knew that he was going to restart his career and be one of there best player in Ottawa and he had and I can see him and Brady being two of the best players on the team for years to come.

22 Oct 2020 17:38:46
It will be a tough deal to make, trading Marner's 11M contract, especially in the flat cap era, but it will be necessary to icing a balanced competitive lineup.

22 Oct 2020 18:06:58
100% true Chickenfoot, that contract is an albatross. There would have to be a lot of salary coming back, and frankly it would either be one player on an equally bad contract OR two 5M ish contracts with one being a salary dump.

Many teams are operating 10+M under the cap right now, and the really good teams around the league have their core in place. Moving Marner for a fair return seems extremely unlikely over the next couple years.

This is the team's core, this is the cap situation. It's all on Dubas to make the right moves to create an effective roster of peripheral players around the core and ice a championship team.

22 Oct 2020 21:39:49
Have to agree there Chicken foot. Marner is a solid player on most teams. In a flat cap world though you will never get market value.

22 Oct 2020 22:18:28
Or Hyman can point to Kreider’s contract and say he deserves $6M a year. Their stats are eerily similar and they play a very similar style of game.

The exodus of talent and churn in the bottom of the roster since Dubas took over is going to continue annually, as Dubas has to dumpster dive to try and find “undervalued” players to backfill the bottom 6 every year. Not good.

Attempting to game the system is not an easy task. Dubas is facing an uphill battle to constantly hit winners every year and hope that Keefe can somehow squeeze value out of them all. Only to watch them sign a more lucrative contract elsewhere the next summer, so Dubas can start all over again with another crew.

I haven’t done any calculations to back this claim up, but I would not be surprised if Dubas has paid out more in salaries (in real dollars) the first two years he has taken office than ever before in the history of the NHL. He was handed a credit card with no limit and went on a spending spree. Now the consequences are catching up to him and he is having to pawn all the rest of his stuff in order to afford payment on the three (four) luxury vehicles that are taking up the bulk of his expenses.

22 Oct 2020 22:34:56
If marner is ever traded a young rhd dman is coming back
Anything less and it’s a trash trade

Marner and liljegren for makar and jost.

22 Oct 2020 23:52:41
Marner as a player is much better than this offer. Unfortunately in this flat cap era it will be hard for any team to get a decent return for players making over $9 mil with term.

23 Oct 2020 04:04:40
No chance you get Makar for Marner. Like, that isn't even close.

23 Oct 2020 07:03:15
Prove your point leafslife.

23 Oct 2020 12:24:00
Gonna laugh if Colorado pulls a 2016-17 year. Something they are good at doing. Makar and graves both go -25 and then what?

This is a team known to do this kind of crap. I don’t trust their core at all.

23 Oct 2020 14:37:28
What will it take for marner not to be fans trade scape goat

30g 95 a 125pts. Has mcdavid even done this yet?

Guess mcdavid needs a sweatner to get rid of that contract

Kane gets 90-110 pts @ 10 million per signed 2015 equates to 12 million with inflation

So is 10.85 for 90 pts really that bad?

Just like Tarasenko signing 7.5 in 2015 equates to 9 now really better than nylanders 6.9 now.

Some sign sweet deals due to location, no media pressure, the fact they sucked until year 5 get locked in great team deal then break out.

So why do fans here really want Robertson to succeed right now. Wouldn’t it be better to just let the big 4 do all work put Robertson on 3rd 4th line for 3 years have him sign team friendly deal then year 4 put on 1st line have him score 35 then all think he has best contract in league.

You all want to have these great young players to put up huge numbers during ELC but get angry when they sign big deals after succeeding beyond even your expectations. Give your heads all a shake

Coulda signed either 3 for 6.5 for 2 years but then what? Think laine will be easy

How about Keller or hischers contracts. You’d be happy with giving 50 pt guys 7-7.5 million. Just be glad leafs have 3 guys you enjoy watching. The cap isn’t our problem. Just take what we have enjoy and be glad leafs aren’t the sabres.

Why is it Habs have as a team a higher cap hit than leafs but aren’t even close to them in standings. Habs aren’t a playoff team. They beat a team they always beat in a fake made up 1st round of playoffs to create revenue and are now better than Toronto. LOL. No one discusses their bad contracts. They have many yet leafs big 4 are the discussion. It shocks me.

Matthews needs 60 goals marner 125 pts and nylander 100 just to make everyone happy. Trade them all have cap space then get lesser players have worse season but hey leafs have cap space now.

When did money and cap space become our problems.

Trade a player based on if they are good or not. Not based on the contract. It’s not our cap number who cares.

23 Oct 2020 16:40:32
C12, I understand the reason for the rant. Normally, I can see your logic in your arguments. I can agree that putting point totals to players and saying they need to post certain numbers to be worth their contract is being too tunnel visioned. imo

But to say just enjoy and forget about the cap, that I just can't see the logic.

For one-Hawks haven't won since Kane and Toews contracts kicked in. Now they feel they have to rebuild because they realized it isn't working with being too top heavy even though Toews and Kane are still at a very high level of play. And they don't have a 3rd player even close to $10M. The next is Seabrook about the same as Nylander. Their top 3 cap hits uses $5.66M less than ours and they can't truly compete.

Also, Tarasenko when originally signed would have been harder to move then, then he would be now. His hit then was 10.5% of cap, now it is down to 9.2%. That is $1M more in cap space available by comparison. Not really fair to say that is like $9M now because STL didn't win when he was at 10.5%. Blues didn't win until some of their previous, more lucrative contracts cap hits were reduced.

For Tampa, they didn't win until some of those players cap hit% were reduced by the growing cap and allowed them to surround those players with better quality. The Caps, The Pens, are also examples of the same thing. Stamkos, Hedman, Kilorn, Johnson all signed 4+ years prior to winning. They took up 35.2% of the cap when signed. Only 31.7% when they won. That is $2.85M more cap space to use elsewhere. Coburn also took a pay cut 3 years ago. With the signings of Kucherov and Vasilevskiy they still needed top quality play from ELC's Cirelli, Sergachev and Cernak along with cheap quality fillers to win.

Cap matters and with it being flat, if we win with the current allocation, it goes against everything cap history has taught us.

There is a hard budget.
If Leafs were a car being built, we put 50% of our hard budget into the engine and it is hard to say right now if we left enough for quality brakes to stop the vehicle or enough for quality tires to keep it on the road. A little less power and better brakes and tires would make a better balanced car that could handle all conditions and not just straightaways. I'd rather a balanced car then say, wow engine sounds awesome, who cares if I make the corner at the end of the straightaway:)

23 Oct 2020 18:38:31
It’s not our cap though. Can’t worry about something out of our hands. What happens if leafs win cup?

Then where does all this go?

My point to all this was instead of harpin on the players because they excelled as teenagers enjoy them for what they do. You could see leafs locked into worse contracts. Money isn’t the fans problems. Harp on a player because they suck not because you think their contract sucks.

You all loved marner Matthews and nylander making 900 gs. Money changes how good they are? Guess we should all be locked into our starting teenage wages 4-life. Wouldn’t that be fun.

23 Oct 2020 19:21:18
A little over the top. lol

I mean, all trade suggestions, fantasy or not, must take the cap into consideration in order to be even remotely possible.

I think most (I guess not all) are trying to look at ways they believe to build a Cup team, not hating on a particular player or players. I doubt anyone is mad because Matthews, Marner and Nylander are good and I doubt anyone would care what they made if the cap didn't exist.

So making trade suggestions based on ones opinion of the best way to improve the team may include moving a high ticket player and replacing him with lower cost or multiple players or prospects, picks whatever.
Personally, I would like to keep all 4, but I don't believe that is the path to the cup. Nothing to do with harping on a guy or not enjoying watching him play.

And what happens if the Leafs don't win the cup because we lacked the proper depth and all 4 walk at the end of their deals? Do we just say, well at least we kept the 4 together? Did we not possibly miss a great opportunity because maybe the build concept was flawed? There is an argument for keeping all 4 and an argument for moving 1 or even more than 1.

23 Oct 2020 21:19:39
Guess Dermott is new king of trades

Based on cap hit his worth is any + 5 million guy plus a 1st for him alone.

Can’t have it both ways now can yeah

If big 4 worth is crap than Dermott is a kings ransom.

23 Oct 2020 21:22:46
I just love going back and forth this cap thing

Some days I’ll agree others I defend the players. Lol

That’s why I love my job. Evaluating talent before money is involved.

Money complicates everything not just in hockey folks


27 Oct 2020 16:33:48
CRAIG: you listed some numbers above relating to Marner vs McDavid. It wasn't clear what stat you were trying to put across, and I'd like to. McDavid is AMAZING, and is a career 1.33 PPG.

Regarding your belief regarding the cap not being important to consider, I respectfully disagree. If you have a player locked up at 11M, but he performs like a 6M player, your team has a limited ceiling. With a hard cap there is simply no way around the principles of cap management. Perhaps I misunderstood your point regarding the cap?



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