09 Jan 2021 21:57:41
Leafs trade Lehtonen, Sandin, Niemela
Rangers trade Schneider, Lundqvist
We swap a few LHD for a couple RHD. Pretty straightforward for both teams and fills in Rangers left side and fills in our right side.
10 Jan 2021 03:55:17
Don't think you can trade Barbanov or Lehtonen unless you never want a KHL star again.
They come here because Dubas guarantees them a fair shake.
Sorry Zaitsev.
10 Jan 2021 08:25:03
I’m fine with never wanting a KHL star again.
Have we ever really had a KHL star to begin with?
10 Jan 2021 10:01:04
Lol very good point HL.
I guess I'm playing the "grass is greener" side of this.
They are extremely cheap labour for what you may end up with. Would you say no to Panarin? That's the real question.
10 Jan 2021 11:39:44
Topi is right handed.
10 Jan 2021 13:22:43
Gonna break this down for fun
Sandin and lundqvist were magic at 2020 world jrs. They were by far the best pairing and both coulda won dman of world jrs. They went back to back at draft so dealing for 1 without dealing other can go be them chance to showcase their magic at nhl level
Dealing lehtonen could be bad for bad PR with khl. I personally could care less if leafs ever get another khl player but since his days with the Sau dubas has loved being in good standings by with Russia ice hockey federation by convincing Sergei tolchinsky to come to the O and play for him. So can’t see dubas dealing khl guys after getting them. Also with Amirov needing a contract before he becomes a khl casualty and runs out his eligibility to be a leaf best to keep relations with Russia aware it’s at now
I think leafs should keep topi as he is right handed and lookin like a solid puck
So with that I see best if leafs go after only 1 of the 2 RHD
If leafs want lundqvist I suggest
Dermott liljegren and a 3rd for him
Rangers need ready LHD bad and liljegren really laces lundqvist in system but to a lesser extent
If leafs want Schneider
Dermott Sandin and a 3rd for him
Schneider is a higher end prospect so it will take even more to pry him from the rangers. This should do it
Thought.
10 Jan 2021 18:20:53
The thing that sticks out for me is the possible cost for Schneider. If it really would take Sandin, Dermott and a 3rd (not suggesting it won't), then seriously, why the */! - didn't we draft him when we had the chance as he is worth way more than our current best D prospect.
11 Jan 2021 03:04:27
I read that Niemela was also 165lbs now. So he’s packed on a bit of weight. Just the web sites haven’t updated.
It’s impossible to keep up with these prospects and their sizes. They are all at an age where any of them could hit a late growth spurt and see radical changes in their body composition.
Who knows with Niemela. He is the new apple of Dubas’ eye. He is a wild card. But if he comes out as good as Lehtonen apparently is, then the Leafs have done well for themselves with a third round pick.
11 Jan 2021 06:05:11
@HL it's a good point on growth spurts. I don't generally pay much attention to size unless it's extreme one way or the other for this reason. They are also in their primes as professional athletes. If someone is dedicated enough they can totally transform their bodies in one year.
11 Jan 2021 12:09:41
I have to think dermotts trade value isn’t all that high right now. Maybe a 3rd. Then Sandin is probably worth a lower 1st round pick. The 3rd was simply a sweatner to make sure the deal happens
Calgary at 19 dealt that pick to rangers for Carolinas pick 21 and got a 3rd round pick out of it
Then they dealt that 21 to Washington for their 24th plus grabbed yet another 3rd rounder.
So 2-3 spots in the middle 3rd of the 1st round costs your lower 1st rd and your 3rd round pick
So guess in theory to get a 19th overall pick and you have a 28th (Sandin draft position) it probably takes a low 2nd or 2 3rds to swing that kind of deal.
At the draft I got the feeling dubas wanted nothing to do with Chl players regardless how good they are. He only chose hits in the 1st 3 rounds that were currently and guaranteed to be playing some sort of hockey in the next calandra year. The possibility of 1 tournament of 7 games for a hole year didn’t sit too well with him as far as I see it
Looking at this draft class amirov seemed to be the most North American style ready from anyone in Europe available at 15 so he took it. I personally thought amirov was more suited for 20th-24th as their were 4 Dmen still available I think were more valuable for that pick. 3 of them were chl Dmen in which 2 were not playing and the other had a weekend of action on him at the time as the Q was only league playing. The other dman was the big bodied and named Russian dman who plays with amirov. Differance between the 2 is that amirov if the O was ready to play would consider playing year here while other guy wants to stay in Russia. Dubas having good pr in Russia simply could grab that big guy when he is 25 since I’m sure dubas time scouting both he got to know both and has good relations with both. Dubas is a people person seems to just get people drawn to him it’s quite remarkable seeing him work that side of business. So get amirov now then other guy in 6 years. 2 for 1 lol
Personally if amirov was who he wanted I thought dubas should of traded that 15th to rangers for Carolinas 21st. Rangers still get Schneider and give leafs the 21st plus that 3rd rounder and probably lias Andersson whom got dealt a bit later anyways. Odviously he’d have to do this before Calgary’s offer and make it appear he wanted Schneider to suck rangers in. That was my thinking until I realized Columbus at 18th wanted amirov and settled for the Russian they got (as they heavily scouted both and was picking 1 of them but preferring amirov) once amirov was picked. That’s probably why dubas took Amirov a bit high as I’m sure he knows even better than I do what certain teams may be wanting. As far as Mercer and zary I’d say they were only other 2 forwards available at 15 that may be higher value than amirov. Again it’s the whole chl not playing thing all over again. So 4 D and 2F possibly better than amirov at 15 leafs could of picked over him and that’s how I pegged him around 21 or so. Either way dubas got his guy
Dubas loves to sign Dmen from Russia anyways so please tell me if liljegren and Sandin and even dermott can’t get fair chances under dubas why even care about not getting Schneider. He’d never get to play until it’s too late and his value is at all time low. Amirov like Robertson (got in lineup before following draft happened) will probably get a shot as soon as next year maybe even later this year when khl is done.
Anyways that was long and probably pointless but I got stuck on this thought for some reason.
11 Jan 2021 13:24:45
Good explanation Craigger. Personally though, if that is how Dubas thinks (which seems reasonable to assume) then he is not the right person for the job right now in many ways. After top 10-12 (depending on quality of draft), you should really be looking at BPA in my opinion. If it is too close to call, then take the BPA is in an area of need. Like a big, RD that can play at both ends. Schneider reminds me a bit of Muzzin but right handed. When looking at our prospect pool, did Toronto need Amirov or Schneider more? The answer should be obvious to all of us.
I also believe that Dubas feels that a player like Amirov will have better trade value than a player like Schneider since he values those kind of players more. So if he needs a piece through a trade, he feels the skilled forward prospect will get him more than the 2 way D-man prospect.
The one difference about Schneider was that he is an RD and plays a different game then Sandin and even Dermott. The type of game that we went out and got Muzzin for. Maybe he gets a shot because we do not have what he brings to the games ahead of him, unlike Sandin and Dermott who will have to leapfrog others.
Dubas is learning the NHL on the job, which means he is likely screwing up building a contender of a team that has the most talent we have seen in years. We can't afford to have him keep learning form his inexperience (he even admits this) because our top talent is only signed for so long before they walk (thanks to him) . It is not just not picking Schneider that irks me. It is the arrogance to think he has it all figured out and it needs to be built differently to win, when he has no experience at building an NHL team at all.
His mistakes are adding up and one day he will move on. But it is the diehard fans that will have the memories of another lost opportunity by mismanagement of the team. I hope I am wrong and Dubas actually knows what he is doing.