29 Oct 2023 22:48:37
I’m not convinced that Bertuzzi will ever be a fit with the Leafs.

I don’t think I can watch him skate around aimlessly with one hand on his stick any longer.

If SJS sees Bertuzzi as someone useful let’s go after Duclair, a speedster with scoring, energy and can easily keep up with Matthews and Marner.

Leafs add Alex Steeves and get 29yo RD Matt Benning, a dependable Dman who can skate and PK.

29 Oct 2023 23:39:55
Duclair and Benning for Bertuzzi and Steeves would be a good fit for the Leafs if San Jose was interested.
SJS might be more interested in Leafs 3rd round pick than Steeves as they are a rebuilding team looking to build through the draft.

30 Oct 2023 00:39:28
Deal!

30 Oct 2023 00:55:18
I really don't like the idea of moving Bertuzzi. Making the playoffs won't be an issue, but the playoffs will be.

He's shown himself as a playoff performing and has an edge to him. I'd still keep him unless he's horrible around the TDL.

30 Oct 2023 11:28:14
When I see these types of deals and how much support there is to get rid of every new player the Leafs added this year and get back "speed" and "scoring", I think how so many must actually miss Dubas.

Tree added the type of players at the start that Dubas would trade assets for at the TDL. The big difference, it cost the Leafs nothing to add them at the start of the season. Bertuzzi/ Domi=O'Reilly/ Foligno, but Bert and Domi are younger. Klingberg>Gustaffson, but similar in puck moving offence D-men. Cance are, Tree will try and add a vet physical D-man and not need to add the rest which saves assets.

So what do people want? Trade all the grit now for more speed and scoring and then at the TDL, trade young assets/ picks for the grit we all know the Leafs will lack come playoff time? In other words, do it exactly the same way Dubas did for years and delete the propsect/ pick cupboards even more.

30 Oct 2023 14:03:40
I think Bert has been a good fit one the 2nd line it’s gonna take more than 10 games for guys to get some chemistry going so just take a breath.

30 Oct 2023 14:24:24
It really has nothing to do with Dubas! I like Treliving and his desire for snot.

I am and have always been supportive of playoff type hockey players. I always consider a player’s willingness to do battle. Duclair has some battle!

Fighting is not the only way to deter the opposition; crunching body checks and “having someone’s back” by stepping in immediately following a questionable opposition occurrence is critical.

And Bertuzzi has played one playoff so let’s throw out small sample size again as a caveat on Bertuzzi.

He has shown little to zero physicality, edge and/ or grit. And he’s costing $5.5m. Honestly I’d trade him 1:1 for Anthony Mantha and give HIM a chance on L1 or L2.

He has a better scoring history than Bertuzzi and is huge, physical and can skate well! Maybe the Leafs can get something extra because the Caps want to offload him so badly.

And while Reaves has prevented late hits, shoves and face-plants, what fear did he create against the Preds.

Let’s get a physical player who ALSO has some skill like Jack McBain or Trent Frederic.

30 Oct 2023 15:18:39
You might want to fact check your scoring history Bert has been fine do not forget he’s playing through a nagging injury he’s a guy who can play in the corners and infront of the net while having some skill to go with revo has been fine as well that line has done fine I would like the leafs to grab a centre tho so kampf can be moved down.

30 Oct 2023 15:39:18
Rsears. It isn't about Dubas in particular, more the style of building a team. What many are proposing is very dubasesque. That is the point about missing him.

As I have said numerous times before, people begged for more physicality and grit. Leafs get it, and many then want to trade all of it away because they don't score enough. That doesn't sound like a familiar philosophy? Ironically, many who want these guys moved are also those who complained about Dubas moving assets at the deadline and likely will again this deadline.

Fighting still matters. Leafs tried the "team toughness" in the past where they all jumped in and then got their collective butts whipped so bad that it didn't deter anything.

Duclair has never been a guy that I thought had any real "battle" in him. He has had his share of injuries as well. Sure, he has speed and can put up points. Defensively he is meh at best.

Martha is rarely noticeable most nights and he has been plagued by a lack of consistent effort. As you said, the Caps would love to get rid of him.

30 Oct 2023 16:59:27
So good dialogue.

So if fighting still matters (and I agree) here is a stat Goat. Bertuzzi has had 5 fights to Mantha’s 10. Mantha’s opponents have not all been lightweights like Bertuzzi.

Their scoring history is quite similar really: .28 goals per game each and the nod to Bertuzzi on assists per game .38 to .31.

I had looked quickly and saw that Mantha outscored Bertuzzi 120 yo 94 and had more assists 134 to 127.

Consistency, bringing it every night, is an issue with both Bertuzzi and Mantha.

If I saw Mantha play 8 games this year as I have Bertuzzi maybe I’d feel the same annoyance so be careful what you wish for, right?

But I would still do the trade because I feel, in my gut, that Mantha can find his way and become a top6 forward.

And so far I haven’t seen much I truly like about how Bertuzzi plays the game.

I hope it changes cause right he is a Maple Leaf.

31 Oct 2023 01:41:22
@Rseara I really liked Mantha when he was with the Wings. Had a lot of hope for the kid at the time. The more I've seen of him though, the less I'd make that trade. He went to a Caps team that was at least above average and has done nothing since then.

31 Oct 2023 11:20:28
Rsears. Why make the Mantha for Bertuzzi trade if you believe both have consistency issues? Plus, which no one seems to remember, Bert has a No move clause and asking a guy to waive it 10 games into the season pretty much assures that the Leafs won't be signing anymore notable free agents.

As GOAT said, I think we should relook at the stats. Bert has 221 points in 331 games (.67 pg) and 10 points in 7 playoff games while Mantha has 254 points in 427 (.59 pg) games and only 6 points in 11 playoff games (0 goals) . Mantha had 2 good seasons years ago and done not much since and Bert has been pretty consistent throughout.

Mantha also cost 200K more. It's not like Mantha is more physical either. If you still have fait in him, all good, but why trade anything of value for him other than dollars in, dollars out for cap purposes?