Leafs talk 3

28 Nov 2025 17:56:45
Why is everyone trying to trade matthews because hes having a bad couple seasons...if he gets traded, a top center haz to come back, so be realistic in trade proposals..not many teams wanna trade top centers, matthews will be fine, although i would like a canadian as our captain and they should have kept tavares.. that's when things started to change...therez bound to be lots of problems cause they changed there whole atmosphere from Offfence to defence style, i knew this would happen...u cant change the way people play...if u do u got to change all ghe players who played last decade of offence first...so i can only see trades involving matthews to vegas, edmonton in swap players...draisitl or eichel..or a package of good players, matthews is still a star..hell be better.

28 Nov 2025 21:21:38
Because Mathews hasn't looked right in over a year. Will he ever look like himself again or did something happen? Is he just done as a Hart candidate now?

Wasn't that long ago he won the rocket, Hart and Lidsay. We aren't even having thoe conversations anymore.

At one point, he was talked about in the same realm as Mcdavid as an overall player. The drop off was fast.

29 Nov 2025 09:38:20
When it comes to Matthews there needs to be transparency I’d love to know what his chronic injury is because I think that’s what he’s dealing with. But also is it or is it the fact that berube plays him so much that by the time he’s done trying to keep the puck out of his net he’s got nothing to give at the other net why did they go get Roy and Laughton if there not gonna use them in their role… this is totally conspiracy talk but what if nylander doesn’t try on defence because he doesn’t wanna be put in defensive situations because his numbers just keep going up and up the stats are out there showing that all the star players elsewhere get treated like stars where they don’t get all the hard matchups. Maybe it’s a cop out but I’d like to see Matthews taken away from all those dzone starts the pk was better without him and knies so what’s that tell you I truly think berube is a big reason for the regression of this player but the leafs won’t look elsewhere.

29 Nov 2025 14:56:50
It's not about if Matthews "only" scores 40 per season to me. Ovi was pretty much in that 40 range most seasons and no one really complained Ovi didn't score more. It's the lack of physicality of Matthews. The lack of hard compete. For him to be elite, he has to also dominate in another areas if 40ish goals are going to be his average. 40 goals is great, but Phil was a 30-35 goal scorer though and didn't do much else. 40 and nothing else isn't good enough for Matthews. He needs to do more than score 40 and be defensively responsible.
He also needs to dominate some games if he is going to wear the C and get $13+M a season. He needs to be able to lead the way. Would be hard for anyone to argue that that is actually what he is doing. He looks like a higher end complimentary player atm.
As for trade props regarding him. It doesn't mean everyone wants him traded, this is a trade prop site. People post props about pretty much every Leaf player. As for trade value, personally I don't think he carries his top value atm. I don't think the return is going to be generational Matthews value. It's going to be for a solid two-way centre that can score value, with questionable health. Nor is he considered a great leader or a clutch guy. That is what he is right now and whether we like it or not, that isn't going to be get a massive McDavidesque or even close to that of a return.

28 Nov 2025 12:36:04
the media always cuts up marner cause he mentioned himself as high hockey iQ..front the topic 'me first'... well i believe surely that he has that, hes a top player in this league and was the best player leafs ever had...but he got tired of it...t.o is not for every player but it was a huge mistake, i think matthews played with marner too long.. that is whats screwed matthews playing up..


Matthews goes to vegas for eichel..

28 Nov 2025 21:22:33
He isn't a top player in the league though. Look at him in Vegas on a much better team. Probably finishes with 85-90pts as a 12m winger.

28 Nov 2025 05:31:30
Good win. Probably one of the best games I've seen from a Leaf goalie in a decade. Woll is on fire. He has to get some rest, but remain the 1A until Stolarz gets it back.

26 Nov 2025 03:40:47
Wow im wondering now if people believe me when i said, berube needs to go, treliving,joshua, i said right from when treluving was hired and berube, that they would screw this team up...ill stress sgain berube and treliving are pylon pluggers...tree we already know that he was a horrible gm and berube coaches like its 1981..the team was a high flying scoring team..shanahan did this and u cant blame him,he knew this would happen, fans called to end the shanaplan, saud that it failed, he said fawk u...ill cripple this orgsnization..keefe, dubas, and shanny was the best thing this oganization ever had, making playoffs every season and fans wined, they didnt get out of first rd, only second round once, they all dhould get fired...and do they did for worst gm in history well jfj its close, and berube in the 5 worst i guess...carlo, joshua,domi,benoit,id put on waivers and bring up the kids. Cause they do not have value, im really wondering if u could even get a second rd pick total for all...tanev is good but was a horrible signing not cause of talent but cause hes a dinosaur(brontasaurus not a trex) anymore...so def 4 got to go, along with berube and tree and coaching staff...once u replace them, leafs will rexaming....we know we need a top 6 and top pairing d, but how to get it...byram,or hughes, not with out cowan or knies and woll...i mentioned yezterday, carlo, domi, valis for byram but need to add a pick...or add quillian....hughes for knies plus i read that...we have no choice to take one step back....but people we cant trade matthews without getting a #1 center back...so if your posting matthews trade be reasonable..rlf

26 Nov 2025 08:12:34
And Shanny/ Dubas/ Keefe got this team how far exactly?

Last I recall, game 7 against Florida in the second round is the best we've seen thus far (at least tied for it) . That was without Keefe/ Dubas.

Although I'm beginning to agree they tuned out Berube entirely, I'm not going to blame that on him or Tre.

26 Nov 2025 13:10:20
I will do my best to be reasonable on my trades for a guy who can't seem to get healthy and is now playing like a 30+ goal #1 centre over still being a 50-60 goal #1 centre.

As for the rest. Berube and Tre, 1 season together and got to the 2nd round game 7. Dubas and Keefe. 5 seasons. Once to the 2nd round and out in 5 games. How that is better result than the first example, is mindboggling.

What is the common ground though. The players. They couldn't get it done in the "high flying" offence system and they couldn't get it done in the more grind it out system, although they got farther in that system.

You act like what we are seeing from this team is what we all wanted. NOBODY wanted this. The way they are playing, no one expected or predicted this. If they played like they are capable of, no one would be complaining. No system suits players that are not willing to work hard. No non-physical system where players aren't willing to grind or battle will win a Cup. This is on the players.

25 Nov 2025 14:09:08
Someone wrote this from another site I visit, and it kind of makes sense, even though Leafs are playing with losts of important injured player's.

Comments from Armstrong (2 years ago after firing Berube) and Tre last week to be interesting and revealing.

Berube is a dead man walking:

Armstrong: "It's uncomfortable when you go to the arena every night and you're not really sure what your team is going to look like."

Treliving: "A large part of the frustration is you don't know how it's going to look like (every night)."
____________________________________

Armstrong: "There were more nights than not where I felt we didn't win the game. . Not by the score, but by the eye test of 'you were a better team'

Treliving: "I think far too often, even in games that we've won, we haven't won the game."
___________________________________

Armstrong: "I don't know if we're a better team than our record indicates, I really don't."

Treliving: "I think, as we sit here today, our record is indicative of how we've played."

I have supported keeping Berube for a bit longer, but it doesn't look like his style is changing at all. Leafs can't just be a North/South team 'dumping & chasing'.
They need some kind of hybrid system with the 'dump & chase' along with possession. A 'Cheefe' style if you will.

What do you guys think now about firing Berube now, another week after we've last visited this discussion?

Sure sounds like Berube will be gone soon.

25 Nov 2025 15:16:08
Let's remember, Berube was into his 6th season with the Blues before he was let go. That's a pretty good tenure for a coach and yes, sometimes a new message is need after that amount of time. He isn't even a year and a half in Toronto and a new message is needed? He did well in STL for years before they needed a change.

This is a team that seemed mentally broken for game 1. That can't be the coaches fault. How did Berube create that?
What I see, is too many mentally weak top players (JT the exception) . Too many players that aren't willing and don't want to play the way to win. We can blame Berube and change the system, but end of the day, too many of these guys won't play a hard physical game that is necessary.
We can blame Tre as well. He inherited these guys, but also extended their contracts. In all fairness to Tre, hard to trade guys that had existing no trades when Tre took over if they don't want to go. Muskoka 5 comes to mind.
Here is the thing, do we actually think this group will play completely different and start to battle under a new coach and start to play a playoff winning style of hockey? If Berube and Tre can't get them to, why should we believe a new coach and possibly GM can. Players need to develop some "want to" instead of the current mentality of I don't want to and not going to.

25 Nov 2025 20:44:35
@RLF I'm going to counter that a bit.

Sometimes it isn't that the coach is bad, it's that the team that was built cannot or will not play his style.

They liked Keefe and hated Babs in part because they refused to play hard and wanted to dance around the perimeter. Berube isn't going to change Nylander or Mathews now. They'll be what they are until retirement.

25 Nov 2025 22:35:20
LL. That's my point, if the players won't now, then why would they under a new coach or management. They won't.

The problem is that the original construction of stars by drafting are void of "do whatever it takes" mentality. That's on Dubas and Shanny.

Tre and Berube were pretty much doomed after they lost last playoffs. Leafs stars played as physical as they ever had, they couldn't get it done. Now they don't want to because why battle and take a beating when they can't do it well enough to win. Tre would need to get guys with no moves to waive them. Doubtful that is going to happen.

26 Nov 2025 01:11:17
@RLF so it's a full rebuild with new guys or a new coach and pray for the best.

Bruce boudreau being the guy that fits this team.

26 Nov 2025 13:14:37
LL. The other option is to get healthy, play it out and hope they get so tired of losing that they dig in. If they won't, look t make moves at the TDL and maximize returns. Going to the players now and asking them to waive when they aren't out of it yet, probably gets a no. If they just keep falling off, they may be more willing to waive as it gets worse, should that be the case.
I think they need a guy like Klapka etc. Someone who will come in and set a tone when needed. Get a young wrecking ball like L'Heureux who will hit and has some talent.

25 Nov 2025 10:33:44
It is time for Toronto to trade all their first and second line players for draft picks or whatever they can get. After fifteen years of being an active fan I watched every single game for fifteen years I decided that Toronto was the wrong team to support. So I decided to stop following the NHL completely this season after game number twenty two. It is a tough decision but I need to find something more reasonable to replace it with. T. Ex fan.

25 Nov 2025 02:10:09
Werenski is Probably close to a top 5 d man in the league Matthews alone probably doesn't even get him at this point. Matthews hasent played at a superstar level for almost a year and a half.

25 Nov 2025 09:19:10
He hasn’t been healthy I blame Matthews and the team. He should of never played through the injury last year and he should of never played four nations same goes for this year they should sit him down and tell him that if he’s not 100% he’s not playing the olympics what’s he gonna do demand a trade.

24 Nov 2025 21:17:14
Was just told by a leaf, that i guess berube's jobs in the hot seat...see they need me back from retirement..me and darcy always kicked ass..

24 Nov 2025 02:12:21
Wow i was just told that, leafs are penciled in to make the biggest comeback in sports to win the cup against colorado avalanche in 7 games this season, i guess there going to be down 3 games, and each or there 4 wins will be in o.t, so i was told, will u all believe me that hockeys fixed then...specially for canadian teams, i guess this going to happen because the league is fearful that if they dont, that leafs being the most expensive team in hockey, losing even a quarter of the franchises revenue. Will fundamentally cripple the passion for the league as a whole and that fhead bettman will lose his job. Foremost, readilly embarrassing the fixed american franchises...u know this could be good for the most fixiated sport of all time....stay tuned people, we only got 7 more games to look horrible...then i guess leafs will be plaing .800 hockey the rest of the way...if the same berube american blues can do it...why not the mecca of hockey be great for the sport, it might even change the teams name to torontoican leafs...after all it would be because of all the american on the team....its a win win for the team, sport...a canadian team gets the initial headline, but the american players on the team will get the runnerup glory or a vice a versa...stay tuned...think it starts dec 8th or so...

24 Nov 2025 04:36:15
Buddy,

I can barely read what you're throwing out. It's just jumbled up nonsense.

I'm not saying i disagree, just that I don't understand it.

23 Nov 2025 22:39:20
Wow u fans are unreal, first u guys hated marner he gets traded, now u guys want matthews gone, and the proposals specially from u rlf, shame on you, a future maybe number one center a seviceable puck mover and bottom pair dman in ferraro...for am34 one of the bezt centerman in the game...you guys only care about the bottom 6, why not give matthews up for a 4th line center, and a physical 4th line winger and mid range prospect....the only players on this team that should get axed are domi, joshua, carlo..the only problems this team has is in berube, and trevling...they still think its the 80s90s...the team has stopped playing for the whole coaching staff...there not going to address the areas, so they need to go...berube is a terrible coach and trevling is the worst gm..besides ferguson jr..dont you see what there doing, adding pylons and elderly...berube takes out quillian and puts in blais...thats poor coaching, dont u watch, when some plays gd, or a line is finding chemistry he changes it up...do u people think all the players that arent playing are injured, nope i know some, they just dont like berube and coaching staff system and dont wanna be persecuted by the absurd fan base...im sickened by this system...they took a high explosive scoring system and rubbish right on it cause the fan base said were not tough enough, i surely enjoyed, dubas, kefe and shannyz system way better then this...the players on this team have giving up as i would also...so now u guys are complaining about matthews, u know dam well he dont care anymore, and im not against trafing him...just for true value, not potential top centers and serviceable players or bottom 6 players, if matthews gets traded top players need to come back...u people dont have to worry matthews being traded, as he'll want out if they miss out, that's when u dont get fair value...so instead im gonna say it, people on here, shut your mouth, your under valuing every leafs players, just makes your incompetence look disasterous, in other words makes u look dumber then dog rubbish...im sure whoever runs this site, will probably cut me off, cause they know i know wth im talking about, cause under my other account and last season, i knew marner was going to walk, so i said they needed another top 6...i said from day one signing tanev was a huge mistake, nothing against him, hes great but this is his last seasin as a top 4...i wouldnt doubt, he retires before his contract is done...the defence is the biggest problem on this team...oel, and mcabe rielly are the only ones id keep, and rielly because hes been on our team for awhile, all though his contract will haunt us, u aint getting any value back for him...snd he could be an elite 3rd pairing puckmover for remainder of his contract...so keep those 3...and trade the rest, make sure danfords there next season...and fill in the youth, they wont be great for cpl years, but young peeps have speed, energy and compete...tanev, benoit l, carlo have to go, thsts the starting of fixing your blue line, trvling needs to go...cause of pylons, and elderly and letting our bezt player walk, berube needs to go cause of being on the blues dick, failed system and failed lines...cant u guys see they only wanna add gorner flames and bluez players, dreaming of 7/8 years ago instead of making smart decisions...recap


Joshua, domi, tanev, carlo,benoit, berube and trevling are whats got to go....good luck to your future posts and if these 7 people dont go without adding a top 6 and top puck mover, then unfortunately were doomed...goood day.

24 Nov 2025 00:58:30
Thanks grumpy. Please tell the players you know to stop pretending to be hurt because it's embarrassing and childish. Can you then recruit the justice league to play for the Leafs. Much appreciated.

23 Nov 2025 14:28:54
I didn't see last nights game and by the sounds of it, a good thing. I also get the frustration as last night, from what I have read here, sounds like they had no jump, no push, no drive.

I will say this though, if I showed you the lineup below and said this will be the Leafs lineup this year, would you have them at the top or bottom of the division?

William Nylander -- John Tavares -- Calle Jarnkrok

Bobby McMann -- Max Domi -- Nicholas Robertson

Dakota Joshua -- Scott Laughton -- Easton Cowan

Sammy Blais -- Steven Lorentz -- Matias Maccelli

Morgan Rielly -- Oliver Ekman-Larsson

Simon Benoit -- Jake McCabe

Dakota Mermis -- Troy Stecher

Joseph Woll

Dennis Hildeby

Let's remember-No Matthews, Knies, Tanev, Stolarz, Carlo and Roy. That is 1/3 of your starting lineup. Not all bottom 6 guys either. #1 centre, 1st line winger, 3rd line centre, top pair D, 2nd pair D and starting goalie.

They have gone 1-1-1 with this lineup.

I know this has not been the lineup all year. They are still only 6 pts out of 1st in the division and 9 back in the conference with 3/4 of the season left. I hope management stays patient because no GM is giving us value on anybody right now, except maybe Edmonton would for Woll, but that is a trade I don't want to make.

Once healthy upfront, then take a look at who to scratch and look at some moves. Unless of course, something comes along that they can't pass up, which I doubt.

23 Nov 2025 16:49:29
RLF after watching last nights game, the lines don’t really matter. There is no heart or unity on this team. Everyone seems to be out there for themselves. Might need more of a personnel change than just Marner.

23 Nov 2025 17:33:14
Clarky. I was referring to the "lineup", not lines. Does this lineup, regardless of who plays with who, look like a an NHL lineup that would win many games? I don't think it does. I don't know what we can expect at the moment if this is the lineup.

23 Nov 2025 18:26:19
@RLF I think it has to do with so much more than last night to me this team has no identity they don’t play for each other and the coaching staff doesn’t seem capable of fixing anything you’re right they get healthy this could be a different team but I don’t see that happening which is one downside to having an old team.

23 Nov 2025 18:37:46
Goat. I am aware this team hasn't performed before injuries. I was the one who wrote they are mentally broken. Point is, they need to get healthy, and then make decisions.