Leafs talk 3

14 Apr 2024 13:07:31
Something I read in an MLHS article describing the Edvinsson goal. I thought you guys would enjoy it.

"Nylander got beaten by the pinch and then seemed to have his controller disconnect from the video game console, drifting aimlessly while Edvinsson made a cut to a dangerous area. "

BTW I do agree completely with this assessment, Nylander looked like he was out for a leisurely skate.

14 Apr 2024 14:28:22
Tags. lol. Yes, Willy is what Willy is. He is a tremendous offensive talent. He is capable of dominating at both ends, but he just doesn't want to. It seems that simple to me.

As I said and not trying to harp on it, but it goes to your post, he should be no where near the PK. Leafs have Kampf, Marner, Dewar, McMann, Jarnkrok, Holmberg, Knies that can all do a better job imo.

Also, if our 3rd line is Holmberg, Robertson and Willy in the playoffs. . . that line will be fishing pucks out of their own net constantly. Willy's production has been almost nothing with them as it is.

14 Apr 2024 15:31:26
RLF I don't like this 3rd line as well. I've stated if Nylander and Marner are switched, then maybe this line can work.
But I just don't see Keefe playing Marner on the 3rd line, and for that matter, I don't see Marner accepting it gracefully.

14 Apr 2024 17:18:09
As you know, I prefer a heavy 3rd line. I am not as concerned about a ton of scoring from it, as I am wanting it to chip in some, but mostly wear and shut the other team down. Get the puck in their end and keep it there while being defensively responsible in our end. We have no lines that will play any significant minutes at the moment that are physically hard to defend other then the Matthews/ Bert/ Domi line.

14 Apr 2024 17:42:56
This is why I really like my initial line set-ups

Bert-Matt-Willy (2 gritty players)
Knies-Domi-Marner (2 gritty players)
McMann-JT-Jarny (gritty & defensive)
Homberg-Kampf-Reaves/ Dewer (shutdown/ energy)

All lines have grit, defensive and offense. IMO this is the best way to spread out over 3 lines.

14 Apr 2024 06:55:12
Leafs trade Timmins

Utah trade 5 th rounder 2024

Just trying out the Utah Coyotes name here a nothing trade

But let's talk to Leafslife

Leafslife

You still want to trade Robertson + a late first round pick for Jack McBain

Have you lost it my old friend have you had one conversation too many with RLF

Robertson is twice the player mcBain is and 20 months younger.

Robertson would have 2 extra goals if not for a toe offside in both cases

Stats both players

McBain 65 games 8 goals and 16 pts = 24 pts
Robertson 54 games 14 goals 12 assist 26 pt

The money between these two is a wash McBain is in year 1 of 2 year deal $1.5 million.where as Robertson in off season will sign 2 year 2 million deal per

B4 Robertson finishes his next contract he will be a 35 goal scorer

Will McBain ever get 15 goals I doubt it and if you want chippy play bring Bertuzzi and Domi back for less money than they currently make.

If they can play Matthews line they will be happy to make a bit less. It's working out rather well In Edmonton with Hyman hanging out with Mcdavid.

Back to Robertson don't be fooled by RFL who is out to lunch on Robertson. It's not just a shot that Robertson has it's his moves on goalies that never gets praised.

This trade you suggest

Robertson and late 1st
For McBain

Is far worse than if you drafted

Dylan Strome instead of Marner in 2015 entry draft

Tell me last time Leafs had 4 all star forwards plus so many young stars coming in.

All the young guns will be around $1 million with Robertson making $2 million next year

Robertson
Knies
McMann. No star but solid 25 goal guy
Holmberg no star but way better than Kampf
Cowan could be next major star Toronto
Minten starting to score CHL playoffs
Quillan he was as good as Knies in college we see ?

When have leafs ever had a group coming like this Leafslife ? We don't trade any of them until we see who gets ripe among this group

14 Apr 2024 14:13:43
Can I be out to breakfast or dinner instead. I rarely go out for lunch.

I will actually give you some Robertson facts since you brought me back into it.

Do you know who Robertson has scored against this year?
Ottawa
Vancouver
Chicago
Columbus
Carolina 3X (Who had goalie trouble most of the season)
San Jose
Seattle
Anaheim
Buffalo
Florida
New Jersey
Detroit

Most of these teams are non playoff and not big, heavy teams who play a playoff style.

Who didn't he score against for instance and had games where he was in most cases not noticeable in
Tampa
Boston
Vegas
LAK
Winnipeg
Dallas
Colorado
Edmonton
Washington
NYR
Nashville
NYI

All these teams are top teams or close to playoff teams. Almost all play a heavier style of game.

Robertson has feasted on weaker teams. Good for him. We won't see any of those teams in the playoffs though.

As for when has the Leafs had such good young talent. You forgot some names in the early 70's. On top of adding Salming and Hammarstrom in 73. From 1970-77 the Leafs drafted
Sittler
Thompson
Kehoe
Ferguson
Boutette
McDonald
Kneely
Turnball
Valiquette
Tiger Williams
Palmateer
Jarvis
Carlisle
Anderson

I would say that trumps your list pretty easily for cheap young talent.

14 Apr 2024 20:08:23
Not once did I suggest a late first. A late-ish pick was what I stated. 3rd-4th round.

14 Apr 2024 23:22:42
When a player scores 14 goals there will always be 17 teams they don’t score against! If my math is correct.

So 6/ 14 are against playoff teams. And there are a few teams not in the playoffs that he didn’t score against.

I’d also question whether he even played against all the teams he didn’t score against plus his TOI is low.

I’d say Robertson is starting to gain some confidence in his abilities. It’s good to see him (knock on wood) not sustain another injury.

If he gets time in the playoffs it will be a good test on his long term viability as a Leaf.

I hope he makes it!

15 Apr 2024 00:15:36
Here’s a fact:

Nick Robertson has ATOI of 11:19 and has 14g and 12a.

NO OTHER PLAYER with that ice time has more points.

Just saying that he’s being very productive, especially for a guy who also is in and out of the lineup and gets little PP time. He’s played in 54/ 80 games. I have to wonder if he was in every game how much more confidence he might have?

He did have 5 assists against playoff teams like Tampa, Florida, Boston, Vegas and Winnipeg.

Think it’s time to leave Robertson alone. Matt Knies in 78gp has 15g and 21a in 13:42 ATOI with ample time in top6.

They’re both fine for me. McMann in 56gp has 15g 9a in ATOI 11:33.

I like these three.

15 Apr 2024 00:19:25
RLF

Lists the teams Robertson has scored against. Never have I seen a comparison like that used to determine the value of a hockey player.

Is Matthews less of a scorer if he scored more goals against non playoff teams compared to playoff teams.

It’s ridiculous


But now we enter playoffs next weekend and mark my words Robertson is in lineup and he will score goals.

Next season his role on team is significantly higher

Lets compare numbers

The two Robertson brothers

First I’m looking older brother and I’m also checking what older brother did as a 22 years old

RLF.

The last season that Jason Robertson played less than 60 games was as a 21 year old in 2020 - 21 season . Jason played only 51 games

Jason Robertson 2020~21 51 games 17 goals 28 assists 45 points
Nick Robertson. 2023~24 54 games 14 goals 12 assists 26 points

Nick had 2 goals called back this year due to a toe being offside. So the two players nearly match for goals in a similar role in and out of lineup.

Nick Robertson has never had a role with a leafs team and I’m expecting next year he is a full time player. So look for similarities in numbers next year between both brothers


We see in Sept what’s shaping up in camp but Nick Robertson is full time leaf next season. This year I expect he does damage in playoffs we will see?

15 Apr 2024 13:58:33
Rsears.

Sorry, no, your math is not correct. Robertson has scored against 12 different teams for 14 goals. You didn't account for multiple goals against the same team. Not sure what that would have to do with scoring mostly against the lower tier teams anyway. I'm pretty sure if he only scored against top teams you would be touting that it doesn't matter if he doesn't score against lower tier teams as they won't be in the playoffs anyway.

And yes, he did play against all the teams I listed he didn't score against. Why would I list teams he didn't play against? He has 5 goals against teams in the playoffs at the moment, but only against 3 teams. I notice you put 6 goals and didn't mention it's only against 3 teams. I'm not the one skewing facts to support a personal narrative.

Considering I wasn't even replying to your post, the main questions are; what did I write that caused two long posts designed to try and show how great Robertson actually is and wrong I am? What did I write that isn't fact? Where did I write that Robertson is bad? Why such a big write up to me, when you say nothing to others when they write much worse about Robertson?

Your response to me is because. . . why? Because Mackin went on about me again and how I don't know anything about Robertson and how great Robertson is and shouldn't be traded? All I did was show that I do know more about Robertson then he says and pointed out that, at this time he has feasted on the lesser teams and that doesn't relate to a player you don't trade. I also showed that he is not typically noticeable against tougher teams which is what will be seen in the playoffs. Again, not a player that is untouchable. That's all. You disagree with that? And enough to write two "support Robertson posts? " I said nothing bad about Robertson. I actually said good for him to at least feast on lesser teams.

Let's flip this for a second. You have been going on about Brodie all year saying way worse things than I do about Robertson. Do I tell you to leave him alone? Do I write multiple posts to you trying to prove you wrong? No, because I don't tell people what opinions they are allowed to have or express. You have even said my opinion is just an opinion, nothing more, and insinuated my opinion doesn't have much value. Yet, you can go on and on about Robertson and even tell everyone it's time to leave Robertson alone. Pretty authoritative things to say.

There seems to be some great desire to try and prove me wrong by you, yet you say I think I feel this is my site, even though I don't do the same to you. Not sure how you can know what I think and feel about my place on this site in the first place. Pretty arrogant statement to make actually.

I will agree with you that it does seem that someone has a need to feel they are the go to source on the site for hockey knowledge and even tell people which players should be left alone from any critique if it disagrees with their own assessment. It's not really me doing these things though.

15 Apr 2024 14:34:56
weathermac

Are you serious on Matthews not being critiqued on scoring. Matthews had lots of critique for not scoring in the playoffs when he was younger. There have been lots of questioning about whether he can lead the team when it matters and score enough in the playoffs and in big games.

If Robertson is in the playoff lineup and scores lots of goals, nothing would make me happier, assuming he isn't a liability defensively of course. You may be right. Nothing at this point would suggest you are though. He already plays only in the top 9. He also gets PP time on the 2nd unit. He gets sheltered minutes, which is what limits his overall minutes. His average TOI per game is low because he doesn't see the ice late in tight games. Sometimes he barely plays in the last 10-15 minutes of a tight game because of his lack of defensive responsibility. It's not because he isn't given opportunity offensively.

Why it could matter that he hasn't scored much against top teams is because those are the playoff teams for one. Add to that, in the playoffs things tighten up more, get more physical and open ice is harder to come by and has to be fought harder for. If he can't score against them in the regular season when more penalties are called and finding free ice is easier, it is going to be even tougher for him in the playoffs to produce against those teams. That's common sense. There is no evidence to suggest he is the type of player that will excel when games get tighter and more physical and you play every other night, like in the playoffs.

What does what Jason Robertson did have anything to do with Nick Robertson? One has nothing to do with the other.

Yes, he had two goals called back because HE was off-side trying to cheat for an advantage on odd man rushes. That's on him. Had the linesman got it right in the first place, no goal gets scored and this wouldn't be a debate. It was by more than a toe as well. The first one was obvious and the last one the linesman shouldn't have missed either as he was off-side by a good 6" or more.

Let's remember here. I am not the one who said Robertson would score 30+ goals this year, that was you. I said if he gets even 20 we should be thrilled. I didn't say McMann doesn't belong on the team. That was you. I said he should be on the team and could be a good complimentary player in the top 6. I didn't say we should trade Domi and Bertuzzi, that was you. I said put Domi on the top 6 and Bert will come around. I didn't say Treliving was horrible and ruined the team, that was you. I said I liked the direction Treliving was going.

Isn't it pretty disingenuous to be telling me I am wrong on Robertson and so many other players and management when I'm not the one who was actually wrong about it all from the start and you were?

15 Apr 2024 15:50:54
There you go again RLF.

You cannot accept being challenged!

6/ 14 goals are against playoff teams! Carolina (3), Vancouver, Florida and Detroit. Does scoring three against the number one seed not count for three.

You are a piece of work!

And who writes the epistles?

You call me arrogant; it’s really silly.

I think this site allows discussion amongst many. You’re not the only one who can respond to DM, and your name calling is really childish.

15 Apr 2024 19:21:55
Rsears

So the guy who started all the personal insults and continues to do so, accuses me of doing what he does. lol

There is nothing I wrote that isn't true and factual. Only the last paragraph to you is subjective. Are you saying you are the only one allowed to state what you think someone's motivations are. You seemed fine doing it to me, but get angry when I speculate what you are doing. And respond by name calling again.

For instance, on the facts, Detroit is not in the playoffs at the moment, which leaves 5 teams actually in the playoffs as I said. I did put he scored against Carolina 3X. 5 goals against 3 playoff teams. Facts get you angry?

I asked what I wrote that isn't true and I got the kind of response I should have expected from you I guess. You didn't acknowledge being wrong on your math. You didn't explain your need to step in. You didn't acknowledge that my point was strictly about Robertson not showing he is worthy of untouchable status and you instead went elsewhere with it. You didn't answer why you only go after me. No response to what I showed as fact, just insults. But I'm the one that can't handle being challenged and is the insulting one and you put that as part of one of your insulting posts to me, for about the 3rd or 4th time now. No contradiction there. lol

Funny you talk about the epistles, like now you find it offensive. This comes right after you called it a good read, full of good fiction and some historical fact. So which is it? You find it offensive or entertaining? Or is it whatever suits you on whatever day when you want to insult or get angry again.

So, if name calling is childish, which you have done and know you have now again, and it's also not right calling someone arrogant because it's silly, which you have done in the past, then are you just admitting to being everything you claim I am. Is that what I am to take from this, I guess.

Funny thing, If you re-read, I didn't call you arrogant or authoritative. I said your statements were arrogant and authoritative. I also didn't call you a piece of work. These are all things you have done though. Ironically, avoiding answering the questions and responding with anger and insults at those who pose questions in a debate are a common trait of arrogant people. Just saying.

No one said you can't respond to DM. You didn't respond to DM though, you responded to me. I was the one responding to DM. So what does that have to do with anything in your current rant at me. That's a really odd point to bring up. I will ask again, if you think so poorly of me and that I don't like being challenged, I'm a piece of work etc then why keep responding to my posts? No one forces you to engage with me. You do that on your own and then rant about how you don't like my responses to you.

If you can't see you are doing everything you accuse me of, which makes you no better, then what else is there to say really.

15 Apr 2024 20:01:25
RLF

I offered real facts to what you said.
6 of his 14 goals are against playoff teams and 5 of his 12 assists are against playoff teams. If you cannot count Detroit why would your claim be made.

Perhaps we should call it mis-information or distortion of the facts.

I joined Mackin’s post because your response needed to be questioned. Using teams who he scored against is as irrelevant as comparing the two Robertsons. With 14 goals scored there will always be at least 17 he doesn’t score against.

I have never resorted to name-calling; that is your area of expertise nor did I use the word authoritative; that was you.

I will say yet again that you simply are not able to accept being challenged on your so-called facts.

Like it makes less difference that Robertson scores three against Carolina because they were having goalie issues.

You’re grasping for straws.

15 Apr 2024 22:21:36
You never resort to name calling or insults. lol

I didn't say Detroit counted or make that claim. You did. You made the 6 of 14 against playoff teams argument. I corrected your error by the fact Detroit is not a playoff team atm. Is counting Detroit, who is a non-playoff team atm, part of the "facts" your offering as rebuttal.

Using teams he scored against is irrelevant? Ok. So, you would concede that if Nylander had 40 this season and 35 were against non-playoff teams and then during this years playoffs he failed to score, you would still call it irrelevant. I don't think most would and thankfully Nylander scored against lots of playoff bound teams this season. What about a goalie who can only win games against lower tier teams and not the good teams. Is that irrelevant to?

Telling someone that they think they run the site is making an accusation that they think they are in an authoritative role on the site. So, yes you did say I act authoritative.

Just because you keep saying that same thing about me doesn't make it true. The fact that you think it does, and insist it is, is a show of presumed authority by you on the subject btw. Your attempts at armchair psychology, which I will venture to guess you have no real education in, hasn't come close to proving what you claim. Your accusation's are also what people will do in an attempt to discredit another when they have no real argument of their own.

You want authority. You wrote the below, not me.

My "response NEEDED to be questioned"

Really? It "NEEDED" to? That's not a statement from a place of presumed authority? You were compelled to respond to me by whom exactly, to question it? The answer is you, as you admittedly felt you were the authority that needed to intervene.

16 Apr 2024 00:33:12
RLF

My posts presume nothing. As a contributor to the site I have every right to challenge your incorrect statements and misinformation.

Continue as you wish in your fantasy; you are what you are.

16 Apr 2024 13:26:06
Rsears

Living in fantasy. Interesting statement when it comes from the guy who insists he doesn't name call and hasn't been insulting while he uses personal attacks when challenged on his statements thinking that somehow discredits me and my hockey knowledge and overall intelligence. Ok.

Insults are not evidence.

16 Apr 2024 14:30:18
And the horse has the last word!

14 Apr 2024 03:45:18
Also that 4th goal was awful but the other 4 samsonov gets 0 blame.

14 Apr 2024 03:43:53
So hear me out, they should've started Jones against Detroit. And he should start the playoffs. Neither of our top 2 are playing well, and they are who is being scouted right now by Florida staff.

They can get a book on Jones pretty easily but it isn't what they've been working on.

14 Apr 2024 04:22:19
Start Jones? I'm not sure about that one.

I'd give Woll the next two games and just pick who's been better.

Yes, Sammy had a pile of garbage in front of him, but sometimes you just need a save. That's the hug thing people seem to forget.

I cant think of the last goalie that won a cup, without stealing a game, making a key save he wasn't to blame for, that elevated play at the right time. If neither one can do that, then we'd better have the trap devils and Scotty Bowman if you want to win.

14 Apr 2024 14:29:49
I would still start Woll. Nothing has changed for me. Woll's game is much quieter and built more for playoff hockey. I think the players may be even more confident with him in net.

14 Apr 2024 00:48:21
Samsonov needs some days off here. Play in front of him isn't great, but he couldn't stop a beach ball lately.

Give Woll some reps going into the playoffs.

14 Apr 2024 02:05:22
I think we will need Woll. Samsonov is trying to shake demons right now. Shouldn't have played him tonight. imo.

14 Apr 2024 03:34:58
He redeemed himself somewhat. Made a couple of big saves to preserve the point. Good on him, but he definitely needs to be better from puck drop.
Brodie still concerns me though, I'm trending over to Clary's side. Don't know what he was thinking by rolling the puck softly into the corner, why not try to blast it out. He had a chance to do that IMO.

14 Apr 2024 06:05:01
@Tags I have really liked Brodie since he got here, but his decisions are seriously concerning me as well. He's still the best you can do for a top 6, but I'm not sure I like the idea of him either.

Yes, Sammy looked better later on, but that's a lost game next week.

14 Apr 2024 14:34:17
I thought Brodie would turn it around, but his head just doesn't seem in it. It's like he is going through the motions, but struggling to stay in the game in his head. Too many non-confident plays. I don't know if he is just done or he just needs the year over with and try and reset his mind and start fresh, but Clarky and others that said he shouldn't be in there are right. I wouldn't have him in my playoff lineup to start either.

13 Apr 2024 23:59:37
Also, am I the only one who is really tired of Nylander on the PK. He should be no where near the pk.

14 Apr 2024 00:11:00
Is anyone else tired of Knies taking stupid offensive zone penalties?
BTW how does Kampf miss that puck along the boards? He was right there.

14 Apr 2024 00:47:18
@Tags I'm getting tired of Knies taking them as well. They're just idiotic penalties.

@RLF I don't understand why Willy is anywhere near the PK either. He's poor defensively on the best of days, a liability on the worst days.

14 Apr 2024 00:49:35
Tags. Lol. Yes, Knies takes too many penalties, I have already said that on here. I was talking about the pk. Willy has no business being on the pk.

14 Apr 2024 01:03:15
I’m not a fan of the carelessness of Knies either. He needs to lift up the stick like Matthews and not hook and hold.

Agreed Tags. These penalties in the O-zone are stupid.

I’m not necessarily against Nylander getting some PK but there are certainly times when his effort is lacking. It’s these half-efforts that can drive me crazy.

14 Apr 2024 01:11:04
RLF we definitely need help on the PK and Willy definitely isn't the greatest defensively. All we have are Kampf, Marner and Dewar when he's in the line up. I guess Jarnkrok when he's back.
Maybe they need to give more reps to Holmberg, McMann and possibly Knies.

14 Apr 2024 01:36:50
@Tags McCann has a great 200ft game imo. I'd be running him out there as much as possible as well on the PK.

14 Apr 2024 02:04:07
Tags. I know you love Willy, my complaint was more about Keefe playing him on the penalty kill. He shouldn't be there. It's that simple imo.

Rsears. There should be no such thing as a lack of effort on the pk. That is why Willy should be no where near it unless your down by a goal late in the 3rd.

LL. Ding ding ding. McMann on the PK. He is one of the best defensive forwards on the Leafs. He identifies his man quickly and doesn't puck chase. Big body with an active stick. Just what you need on the pk.

14 Apr 2024 03:59:24
I get what you're saying RLF and I agree, Willy is not the most intense/ engaged player out there.
Agree on McMann and also think Holmberg is good on the PK.

13 Apr 2024 23:57:28
There was an exchange yesterday on Samsonov.

I didn’t join the conversation because I might have regretted what nasties I would write.

Honestly, not that the Leafs are defending well, but he’s looking pretty brutal in all facets of his game.

Woll ha been poor recently as well.

The question was also recently presented by LL I believe on the likely playoff opponent.

I had said Leafs in 6 if our goalie beats their goalie.

I want to believe this can happen but I’m not very confident.

13 Apr 2024 23:56:47
And there goes Samsonov's confidence. I really didn't think they should have put him back in tonight. Should have played Woll and gave him time to reset after Thursday's game. End of first and Woll should go in.

13 Apr 2024 21:46:22
So follow up to my Mr game 7 question.

Answers
Hyman
Tkachuk
Paul
Wilson
Pavelski
? Someone else with pavelski
Lehkonen

Follow up question does anyone think one of

Bertuzzi
Knies
Domi
Mcmann

Could be this type of player for Toronto. Does anyone see anyone else down the lineup that could throw the team on their back for a game 7 to essentially say we are winning this thing?

12 Apr 2024 21:03:08
With the signing of Lane Hudson the Canadiens will have 10 to 12 defenceman under contract pushing for Nhl jobs next year.
Some may say this is a position of strength but with the rumblings of the problem of cracking the lineup it could become a issue.
I would say that this is an opportunity to acquire good young defenceman at a discount.
Just wondering what others thought, personally I would target Kaiden Guhle or Justin Barron.
Thoughts?

12 Apr 2024 23:03:44
I don't think Guhle is available, but Barron might be. Hard to say, but they do need scoring and have far more defenceman than they need. Good target.

13 Apr 2024 01:16:03
Would a Robertson for Barron be fair, both RFAs at seasons end?

13 Apr 2024 02:07:26
@Jmaxx I have a really hard time evaluating Robertson's value personally. If I was another team, I wouldn't want him for more than a 3rd, but I'm really not sure how other teams view him.

13 Apr 2024 13:38:26
Yes, Habs would be a good target for a D. I had a discussion on here with someone else earlier in the season about their young D depth. I mentioned Struble at the time as a possible target who was still in the minors. Mailloux could be a good target as well. I'd do Robertson for Mailloux if the Habs would.

13 Apr 2024 18:32:55
Honestly there are so many quality dmen in this years draft trade Robertson for a pick and develop your own guy.

12 Apr 2024 19:12:36
Who would you guys take as modern day mr game 7? Can't be a super high end talent, but you want him on your team for a game 7.

12 Apr 2024 20:54:03
Zach Hyman. Not a superstar, but he always ups his game when needed.

12 Apr 2024 21:11:56
A lot won't like this but Matthew Tkachuk. After last year's playoffs how could you not, dudes a beast.
That being said I hope the Leafs destroy the Panthers.

12 Apr 2024 21:13:23
Sorry just read not a super high-end talent.

13 Apr 2024 13:26:04
Nick Paul, Tom Wilson or similar style of player. Big, physical with some skill.

13 Apr 2024 18:34:02
Tyler toffoli or joe pavelski are two that both resemble the player Williams was.

13 Apr 2024 21:43:11
I like the picks of Paul, pavelski and hyman. My pick is lehkonen.