Leafs Talk

27 Mar 2023 21:50:10
After seeing what's going on with Bunting now, something is clearly wrong with this team. Favouritism, coaching issues, lack of effort, etc.

I'm not sure exactly what it is, but if I was Bunting or Willy I'd feel singled out by management.

Mathews, Marner, JT and Mo have all had some suspect stretches where the effort was seriously lacking. Keefe did nothing about this nor said anything about it.

Bunting seems to be Keefe's whipping boy along with Willy. They both get called out publicly, they both get demoted and they both get benched (rarely for Willy, but does happen) .

Kerfoot makes us all rip our hair out on a nightly basis and he's still getting cracks at top 6 time whenever Keefe feels like it. This isn't looking like a winning attitude on a team right now.

28 Mar 2023 03:53:03
@LL completely agree about Keefe. He has his favourites and his whipping boys.
I know Willy says that he wants to be pushed when needed, but push behind closed doors. Or show the same critique towards other players not performing. Its complete BS to single out certain players, especially since lots of other have gone through their slumps (Kerfoot year long slump basically) .
One thing about Torts, no matter what you think of him, he calls a spade a spade no matter who the player is and I can respect that.
Plus I don't think we'll have to worry about Dubas (or next GM) making the decision to trade Nylander. I bet Willy asks for a trade in the off season because of this BS. Even when he was playing great and reporters asked about Willy's game, Keefe still had a hard time giving him a solid compliment. He would always add another player to share in Willy's praise.

28 Mar 2023 06:18:41
@Tagz that's exactly my thoughts on Keefe vs Torts as well.

I've never seen a coach specifically call out one player so many times, while ignoring the effort from others. We've all seen large stretches of games where Mathews and Marner both looked disinterested, nevermind Rielly essentially looking like he wants to play in the AHL all season. Yet he loves to openly admonish Willy and Bunts.

The first time Bunts was demoted/ benched this year we were all bewildered. The entire team didn't show up and Keefe singled out Bunting.

Look at the standard Tampa sets. Benching an entire top line. Now, that may be extreme, but it shows that he doesn't play favourites to the same extent.

If I'm Bunting, I take my 5 million for 7 years wherever it's offered and don't look back. I can't imagine him being willing to take a discount to do this for another 8 years.

28 Mar 2023 08:27:55
LL I remember Keefe making some negative/ harsh/ honest comments about his stars earlier in the season (don't remember what was exactly said though) .
BUT I do remember the VERY NEXT DAY, Keefe retracting those comments, saying they didn't come out as intended.
WHY? Did he hurt some of the star's fragile EGOS? Did upper management get involved? Personally we don't know the specifics but we've seen what happened.
Comments have been made by more than one departing player about the devide in the room, the 'clique' in the room. Who knows if true or not.
I honestly think that more things will come to the surface if Leafs don't achieve their goals these playoffs.

28 Mar 2023 13:13:32
I agree that there is definitely favouritism by coaching and management. Let's not look past management as well. It is not all on Keefe. Dubas has been the grand defender of his core players. He basically said as long as he is GM, he will not trade them. Is that not massive favouritism and at times, also unjust favouritism? Shouldn't Hyman have gotten that treatment by Dubas?

(I know you won't like this Tagz)
Imo-Nylander has earned his call-outs by the coach. I do not believe for a minute that there has been no attempts behind closed doors to talk to Willy about his compete and commitment level prior to going public. Willy has not looked the same since his all-star snub. We are talking about 7 years of having a $10M talent that they pay $7.5M, but plays too often like a $4-$5M uninvolved point producer. How many years should Willy get a free pass and handled with kid gloves in public? Willy plays a sulky game when things don't go his way which is where we are at right now. Instead of digging in and working harder to get on track, he regresses and plays frustrated. If his shift starts well, he is pumped and makes plays. If it doesn't, he loafs around and sulks making lazy line changes and refusing to compete. I'm tired of this from him. It is beyond frustrating to watch. I can only imagine what it is like for his coach.

He earned praise for the first 2/ 3rds of the season. Keefe said more than once he was the best player out there, he has been doing this for us all season etc. But recently it is just another example of Willy having the ability, but rarely wanting to actually do it.

Bunting is a different animal all together. Hard to claim he doesn't compete. But his temper tantrums when he wasn't getting calls was getting embarrassing. The final blow was when he lost it on the non highstick call and was crying out from the bench at the refs like a toddler in his crib. If you watch the video, his teammates weren't even looking at him. My opinion, his teammates were embarrassed. He epitomized everything teams say about the Leafs being whiners etc. It also shows the other team how important power plays are to your team. Gives the impression that without power plays, we can't. It also put the Leafs at a disadvantage because now Bunting isn't getting anywhere near as many calls, which hurts the team. It was selfish. I can't believe that Keefe had no discussions with him about this prior in private.

Now, Marner could use to stop yelling as well. He doesn't go anywhere near the level Bunting does though. But it seems to be getting more often and louder. I don't like it and I hope Keefe has been talking to him to calm it down. Matthews and JT hardly say a word and are pretty much a model of what you want from a super star. Why call them out? They lead by example. Although I believe he said both Willy and JT need to be better recently. Rielly IIRC correctly has been said by Keefe that he needs to be better this season. Not to the extent of Willy or Bunting I agree.

I am not trying to defend Keefe as there are things he does that I do not like. But Willy and Bunting are two of the most egregious for their actions or lack of action. I think with Murray, enough is already said publicly that they just don't pile on because they see no positive in it.

As for comparing Keefe to Cooper, it just isn't a fair fight. Cooper has earned his respect with two Cups and a Cup final in the last three seasons. Whereas Keefe hasn't got them out of the first round. Cooper is trying to squeeze one more run out of an aging team that has many stars already over 30. Stamkos, Hedman, Killorn along with Perry, Maroon all on the wrong side of 30 and Kucherov 29. He knows his time as near the end. Possible even his tenure near the end if the team starts to decline.

Maybe the Leafs could use more call-outs of its stars, but I am not sure that it will help when they have been given a free pass by Dubas. Hopefully when O'Reilly is back and he and guys like Schenn, Gio etc can help internally to get Willy motivated and keep Bunting on track and under control.

28 Mar 2023 13:38:03
"Gives the impression that without power plays, we can't win. "

28 Mar 2023 14:51:56
@RLF I know Nylander has his faults and I don't deny them, but I don't think every player is on his game 100% of the time. I just feel Nylander gets singled out more often than the others and when Keefe did call out all their stars, he retracted his comments. Probably came from above as I stated also.
Nylander is who he is and if you don't like his game, it's your prerogative. Not every player plays the same way. Leaf fans love their grinders.
Let the Leafs trade him in the off season then and get some good pieces to compliment the rest of the team.

28 Mar 2023 17:09:58
@RLF sorry, I re-read my post and it sounds a little harsh. I didn't mean it to sound this way.
I just like Nylander better than you and hope that he performs when it counts.

28 Mar 2023 17:50:20
Tagz. Agreed that all players are not always on their game. I accept that they are not. But how often being off their A game is acceptable?

I don't dislike the fact that Nylander won't "grind", I dislike his lack of effort. Those are two very different things. I would find it hard for anyone to argue that it is not obvious that Marner and Matthews have tried to improve their game and become more complete. I would also find it hard for anyone to question eithers compete level as a comparison to Nylander's.

Think of it this way. I told you how what you said about your wife is impressive. You admire her work ethic, dedication, long hours she is willing to put in etc to her business. What if she only tried for 25% of her customers. Would she be as successful? Would her customers have as many great things to say about her, or would some possibly want some money back as they did not feel like they got what they were promised? Etc etc.

Now she may still "do her job" with all customers and most would say "she is good, but this or that happened" and those who got her best would likely say "she is great, awesome! ". Let's say for the most part (75% of the time), things were missing because she forgot to order it, or plans didn't go as smoothly because she just seemed distracted etc. She was capable of providing a great service because she did 25% of the time, but she seemed comfortable with just "doing her job" and taking full pay whether she put in a full effort or not.

Would you admire her as greatly as you do in regards to the attributes you wrote about since she would not be displaying the same attributes you wrote you admire?

This is what I mean about Nylander. It's about effort. He does put up very good numbers offensively, but they could even be better. He can play pretty solid defensive hockey, but he often chooses not to. He can play with some physicality, but chooses not to. He can be dominant more often, but chooses not to. The one thing I guarantee he always does, is cash his cheque no matter how he has played or intends to play.

If they do trade Willy this summer, I will miss his talent because that kind of talent is hard to replace, but I won't miss his lack of compete and lack of effort and the negative results that come with that (scoring chances against, prolonged defensive zone time, offensive cycles ended because of a lack of will to battle hard etc) .

28 Mar 2023 19:54:12
@RLF you're 100% right about my wife. She even adds a couple of upgrades free of charge if she can.
I understand your points about Nylander and really can't disagree. I'm just good taking Willy for who he is and hope/ expect him to ramp up his game in the playoffs.

28 Mar 2023 21:11:22
@RLF I agree that Wee Willy has been lacklustre since the break and does deserve to be called out. More my point was, why is it only ever Bunts and Willy? It doesn't always have to be a public callout either. Bunting-Mathews-Marner line had an extended stretch where they didn't play well at all. Bunting was benched, called out publicly and demoted while the core was called out and immediately apologized too.

Many different personalities form a team and Mathews/ JT are exactly what you want, I agree there. They are not the leadership group I would want though. Is hope for some more vocal leaders pushing the team to do better. I think Keefe is right in Benching Bunting at times, but how much of that attitude wouldn't come out if the culture surrounding this team was better?

I agree on Nylander as always. I want Kerfoot on the fourth line because he doesn't have the same talent. That's on Keefe. I want Nylander on the top line because he can be a superstar in this league, but half the time he doesn't look like he deserves to be there. That's on Nylander.

28 Mar 2023 22:48:06
Tagz. All good. Let's hope Willy does find his top compete level.

@LL. What if Keefe had been trying to get through to those two privately and they just aren't listening. We just saw Bunting ignore Keefe on the bench the other night. That is why he was benched. Again, Bunting doesn't seem to care about his emotional actions lately and how it may affect the team.
Maybe Dubas just gave him a lowball extension offer.
Maybe the other stars respond to talks behind closed doors and Willy doesn't, so he needs to go public to get his attention. Maybe Bunting has become difficult to deal with and won't listen, so Keefe called him out to the media.
Just speculating.

29 Mar 2023 00:09:51
@RLF I see what you're saying and it's obviously speculation from all of us, so you may be correct.

As I said, I understand why Bunts was benched this time. Keefe can't let that type of thing slide or he'll lose complete control over this team.

When Keefe called them out publicly, he immediately apologized. That leads me to believe that at least at the time, his private conversations weren't doing anything.

29 Mar 2023 02:22:29
@LL. Maybe he needed to go public back then and then caved because he thought his guys would sulk.
OR
He went to the media and had not had many or very few or No one on one's and realized he went to the media too soon so kind of back tracks. Coaches do some dumb, emotional things sometimes.

26 Mar 2023 02:16:24
Am I the only one noticing Mathews elevating closer to playoffs, while the rest let up? I'm not liking this.

Matt Murray, as usual, looks like Matt Murray.

26 Mar 2023 15:22:58
Matthews ramping it up doesn't surprise me because I had a feeling he would. Liljegren and Nylander are the two I am worried about. Willy has not been the same since his All-star snub. I said it at the time and not many agreed with me, but his lack of will to get the puck out along the boards on the 4th goal was a direct cause of that goal against. He actually let up when he could have beat the D to it. The old Willy is showing up more than the version we saw for the first 2/ 3rds of the season. Liljegren just looks lost.
I still think part of the issue is all the roster shuffling. When you are not familiar with those you are playing with, there is that split second you have to think about where the guy might because it can depend on who is on the ice with you. I am hoping we can see some set looking pairs etc. like yesterday. I have noticed Kampf and ZAR seem to be together, Acciari and Lafferty, Matthews and Jarnkrok. I think Keefe is getting there and I agree with these pairs. He has got to start setting the D though. imo.

26 Mar 2023 17:51:17
I honestly think keefe moving guys around so much is a big factor in the leafs play which I mean they have had some stinkers but they are in most games murray.

26 Mar 2023 19:46:53
@RLF I agree on Nylander especially. He's just slowly devolved back into the Nylander we all know. He still puts up points, but that drive is gone.

@Goat yes, Matt Murray really deflates them, doesn't he lol.

20 Mar 2023 12:01:34
RLF has posted a new article entitled, Will William Nylander Leave The Toronto Maple Leafs?

20 Mar 2023 16:50:29
Solid article RLF. Agree on all of it as well.

20 Mar 2023 17:51:24
When did a post turn into an article with a link? Is this new?

{Eds Note - Long posts have been converted into articles on our other sites for years. This is the first time this has happened on this site.

20 Mar 2023 19:22:56
@RLF no idea lol. I'm not even sure what that site is the article was on.

20 Mar 2023 22:05:54
I too agree with Willy's assessment. contract time. time to start showing signs of caring and hard work. got to get the big bucks.

20 Mar 2023 22:17:53
Thanks for the explanation "Ed". Just curious.

{Eds Note - Thanks for posting.

21 Mar 2023 18:06:30
Ironically, Willy has just been called out by Keefe for his lack of compete over the past few games. lol.

21 Mar 2023 20:07:27
Couldn't have timed it better lol. Hopefully Willy responds well.

14 Mar 2023 10:29:55
Idk about you guys but I'm over the 11-7 lineup seemed like the top guys were gassed I understood it at first to get a look at all the d but it's time to make a decision

14 Mar 2023 11:39:35
I have been over it for games now. I know O'Reilly getting hurt put a kink in getting lines together etc. But it is past the time to tinker with combos etc and figuring out who you want in the lineup. Go back to 12 and 6 and let your pairs get comfortable. Same with the lineup up front. Plug a guy into a spot for O'Rielly (I would choose Lafferty) . This is what I would do.

JT Matthews Marner
Bunting Lafferty Nylander
Jarnkrok Kampf Acciari
Kerfoot (Holmberg/ Steeves) ZAR

McCabe Brodie
Rielly Liljegren
Gio Holl/ Schenn

When O'Reilly comes back, Lafferty moves down to 3C and Kampf to 4C. At least the wingers from lines 2 to 4 get their time together. Eventually they would have Bunting/ OReilly/ Nylander, Jarnkrok/ Lafferty/ Acciari, Kerfoot/ Kampf/ ZAR. Rielly isn't having a good year, reduce his minutes and responsibility some. Maybe he gets going and top 2 pairs would play most of the minutes anyway. I don't see anything in Gustafsson that says he should be in there and Timmins just doesn't have the experience. imo Timmins will get his chance next year to earn a fulltime spot.

14 Mar 2023 19:41:18
Linebup looks good. Can't wait till O'Reilly is back.

Not sure if anyone really remembers this:

Game 1 line up against Tampa last year:

Kerfoot-Matthews-Marner
Mikheyev-Tavares-Kase
Nylander-Kampf-Engvall
Clifford-Blackwell-Simmonds

Rielly-Lyubushkin
Muzzin-Brodie
Giordano-Liljegren

Extras: Spezza, Holl, Bunting, Sandin

I'd say we're in a bit better shape than last year, other than Muzzin of course.

15 Mar 2023 05:49:07
@Tagz that 4th especially is a face palm lol.

15 Mar 2023 12:46:49
@LL agreed lol. And we took Tampa to 7 games with that line up.
I feel much better about our chances this time around.

16 Mar 2023 00:49:48
Right now, both Gustavsson and Liljegren should sit. imo. no, not because of Liljegren bobble in OT, he just hasn't been very good for a while. Gustavsson hasn't impressed me at all. Will you please end this ridiculous 11-7 mismash Keefe.

16 Mar 2023 01:45:19
@RLF Gustafson is just a European Tyson Barrie. I am perplexed by the acquisition.

16 Mar 2023 11:40:17
Right at the trade I said I wish they just told Washington to keep him. The guy is a career 6/ 7 D. He only got his big mins in Washington due to injuries. Dubas wanted him because his stats were pretty decent.
Sandin has looked pretty good in Washington playing over 25 mins a night and QBing the PP. lol.

16 Mar 2023 19:44:37
@RLF I know everyone will say Sandin shouldn't have been traded, but I don't think he ever looks this good in Toronto. Keefe and Dubas seemed to dislike him and he's always going to be behind Rielly.

That could be a trade that haunts this team for a decade though.

17 Mar 2023 01:49:52
@LL. I have said all along that Sandin is top 4 potential even when I was being told otherwise on here. Now, I am not saying Sandin should be playing 25 mins a night and will keep up this pace, but I won't be shocked if he ends up being a top 4 for many years. He is too smart a player. I still don't mind the trade at all and I was one of Sandin's few supporters.

17 Mar 2023 23:43:51
@RLF I can't betray my former self and say I liked Sandin. I never have. I always thought his skating was too poor and his IQ was suspect.

I watched a couple Caps games since he started playing there though and he looks like a different player. He's not making those brutal decisions he was famous for, he isn't getting caught out of position (as much) and he looks confident with the pick on his stick.

I wouldn't take the trade back unless Rielly was being shipped out all the same.

18 Mar 2023 14:51:37
@LL. Honestly, I felt the IQ was there. Some guys need to play a decent amount of minutes to be "in the game". When they sit too much, they try and do too much with the limited minutes they get in order to show they deserve more and then make more mistakes.
That is Sandin to me. Give him 19+ mins a night and I think he will actually play better than a 3rd pair getting 14-16 mins a night. That's how I see him anyway.
In general, the Leafs rarely put young guys in a position to succeed in a way they did in the A. They give them limited minutes and expect them to make a big impression. We may have never seen what Sandin could be. But I remember when there were lots of injuries and Sandin's time got elevated. He always played his best when that happened.
I am worried they will bring McMann up (this year or next), play him limited 4th line minutes and if he doesn't produce, we may have another Mason Marchment situation. Not that I am saying McMann will be another Marchment, but he may get traded for peanuts and he will go on to be a solid top 9 NHLer.

19 Mar 2023 05:07:41
@RLF I remember Sandin being given minutes as well. I remember him playing like poo at those times as well.


Development has an issue or its Dubas/ Keefe.

I won't say I thought Sandin was a top 4, because I didn't think he was, but I do think this system doesn't work with younger players.

19 Mar 2023 12:44:21
@LL. I guess we see his game differently. When Rielly and Brodie were out and Sandin and Liljegren were put together as the 2nd pair, I thought for the most part, Sandin played well. Last season before his injury, he had worked himself into the top 4. That injury really set his development back and he didn't look good at the start of this season. Of course, he was getting limited minutes and missed part of camp while holding out (which I didn't like) . Anyway, we see him differently. All good.

24 Mar 2023 01:04:22
Sandin may well be another Mason Marchment moment.

That said though Sandin has 12 points in 9 games played with the Capitals he is a - 5 so his warts are still visible.

24 Mar 2023 12:45:54
Yea, he has warts. He just turned 23 so he is still learning. He had a 3 game poor stretch where he went -9 over 3 games while only picking up 2 pts. He played the other 6 games as a +4 with 10 points playing 25 mins a night. Like I said, he isn't a 25 min a night, top pair D. I do believe he will be a sloid 20 min a night 2nd pair guy. Something I have said all along. Of course, his development will be based on if the Caps show trust in him and play him even if he makes a mistake.