Leafs talk 2

01 Dec 2025 18:26:04
The only players being traded will be, woll or stolarz, id keep woll myself, carlo and one of either maccelli or domi...i think it will be maccelli.


So stolarz, maccelli, carlo for one or the other a top 6 forward or a top 4 puck mover, i wouldnt try for both this season, cause i think youd have to include knies and that would be a huge mistake..



I really think a goalie will be moved cause i think leafs are testing there goalies they were or not been injured...its to see who can handle everything gd and bad of the leafs organization...i thought they were wrong bringing in stolarz cause woll was gd enough, could have wasted 3+ on something else plus i think hildeby could have holded the fort on backup..leafs im seeing a pattern when it comes to goalies..the make them play too long in the minors...hildeby is ready..this has been the norm for the leafs...ill never deter from the fact that hockey is fixed...

02 Dec 2025 12:59:39
You want to trade half the tandem, when neither one is a proven starter of 50+ games and both have had injury issues. That should not even be discussed unless EDM loses their minds and decides to seriously overpay for a goalie finally.

05 Dec 2025 17:51:35
Today I am glad they didn't trade a goalie.

30 Nov 2025 17:15:24
Toronto needs to fire Lalonde, Van Ryan, and Savard

Hire
Boudreau for defense coach or advance Muzzin to assistant coach

Pete Debor for offensive coach

30 Nov 2025 21:11:46
Boudreau would be the worst defensive coach in history. Make him pp and offense or HC.

01 Dec 2025 09:21:08
I agree with trying to replace the guys around berube savard has had one of the best pp in the league in terms of talent and the leafs have been middle of the pack. The team defence has sucked this year since lambert left and van Ryan hasn’t had any of those blueliners excel under him I believe in berubes message but he’s more of a voice then he is a coach.

30 Nov 2025 15:48:06
Good game by Hildeby. Leafs finished on their opportunities including many guys who needed a good offensive night like Joshua, McMann, Roy, Domi and Robertson.

Robertson though is the one that really caught my eye, but not for how good the goal was, which it was a nice steal and quick snipe. I gave him credit when he got to the top 6 and produced. I said he is taking advantage of the opportunity and good on him. He hustles, he works hard and he battles for his size. He has been in a slump and got one last night, which is a plus for sure.

What got my attention was in the 3rd, shortly before he scored, camera's scanned the bench and Robertson looked as sour as a guy could look on a struggling team with a big lead in the 3rd. He looked like he was sulking. He wasn't talking to anyone even though Lorentz was closest to him jabbering away like he does. Robertson was sitting a bit off by himself looking totally pissed.
He only got a total of 10 mins of ice last night and was on the 4th line. He made it obvious he wasn't happy about it.

When he scored, I know it was a nothing goal because the game was out of reach, but this is a guy who pretty much celebrates every time he scores no matter what the score. At least he looks happy when he does.

This time, it was obvious he didn't want to celebrate it. Lorentz even tries to pull him in and says something to him that looks like positive congrats and he doesn't seem to want any part of it. It looked like Lorentz knew Robertson was pissed and was trying to encourage him.

I may be reading too much into it, but it looked more like he scored the goal down 7-2 late while they were struggling instead of up big while struggling. It was the body language more than anything that stood out.

If he is sulking, get over it Nick if you want a permanent role. You may have a gripe if thinking why does Domi get a shot on the top line and you demoted to the 4th when you're in a slump. And there is validity to it.

It's a team game though. You're not Matthews, Nylander or JT. You're not a star. Truth is, you're a small mid 6 NHL forward at best and that's when you're playing your best. Otherwise, when you're not playing well and producing, you don't bring enough intangibles, you are a replaceable player. Domi, Joshua, Jarnkrok have all been sat while you kept a spot in the lineup. You're not entitled to a top 6 spot. You have to keep earning it because you're not as great as I believe you think you are. Confidence is great to have, over confidence is not.

If I am misjudging him, that's on me, but body language can tell you a lot about someone and his was not good.

01 Dec 2025 09:17:29
@RLF I didn’t see him on the bench but I agree with you he’s forsure frustrated with where he’s playing but I’m sure the rest of the team is too other than Matthews knies Tavares and nylander there’s been a rotating cast up there… problem with Robertson is when he gets his shot he never takes it I’ll admit his game has become more rounded but a lot of his career has been scoring those 6-7 to 2 goals I still think the leafs are gonna move him so I just hope that he keeps scoring to prop up his value.

01 Dec 2025 12:24:26
Goat. Yea, I mentioned that last year as well about Robertson that he does score a fair amount of his goals that aren't meaningful in a game. In fairness, he does have 6 game winners of the ones he has scored.
I am glad he cares, but I think most Leafs were thrilled to have a lopsided win where the pressure of a won game wasn't intense until the final buzzer. Guys were smiling and laughing a little in the 3rd. Haven't seen much of that. When you add Robertson looking like he is sulking with his frustrations of the past, even asking for a trade, he doesn't seem like a character kind of guy. His attitude screams me first, not team first. No one wants or needs a guy in the locker room sulking about his role, especially when they are trying to find their game as a team and dig themselves out of the hole they are in.

01 Dec 2025 15:15:42
100% agree on Robertson's me first attitude. As I said before, my friends nephew played with Robertson on the Marlies and he mentioned Robertson's entitled attitude many times and this wasn't just the nephews opinion (it was a common one among his teammates) .

I like the fact that Robertson has confidence, but I think this borders more on the side of arrogance and entitlement. This is why my prop I made included trading Robertson now, while he has a bit more sparkle. He'll never be one of Berube's favorite or goto guys, so get what you can now IMO.

01 Dec 2025 20:07:31
Tags. I know I had brought into question Robertson's attitude and entitlement in the past and forgot that you had mentioned what you heard. Thanks again for that.

Another Dubas draft pick where he looked past attitude and only talent.

Do you know we had 12 draft picks in 2020 and not one has played an NHL game. Dubas and the great Wes Clark's record isn't stellar by any means.

01 Dec 2025 21:04:01
Guys, how is he not frustrated? Being human and seeing Domi and Maccelli getting more ice than him when they are in. Robertson is not being used like he should be. Why haven’t we seen this guy in 3 on 3 (as well as McMann), they continue to keep recycling out Nylander and Matthews. If there is one part I don’t like to Berube it’s how these guys get distributed, whether it’s lines or ice time or even how or where a player is used. Don’t get me wrong I agree with how Berube wants his team to play but if I had a say, McMann would have much more of an impact on this team. Playing much more of a roll on PP and PK. Same with giving Robbie more special teams time. Stop giving PP time to Domi and definitely not Maccelli if they don’t deserve it. Anyways rant done.

02 Dec 2025 00:58:45
Ckarky. Why should he have been frustrated? He had 1 point in likely games before the demotion. Maccelli, Domi and Jarnkrok have all been sent to the press box. Maccelli has remained there. Robertson was sent a message that he has to be better to be in the top 6, but they didn't scratch him. How does he respond. He sulks. Did anyone think McMann has sulked since being demoted to the 3rd line? Nope. And that happened before Robertson got demoted down the lineup.
You were talking his praise and saying you were right when he started hot in the top 6. I gave him credit. He had 1 goal and no assists in 7 games prior to last game. I would say he was given a pretty long leash because no one else seems to get that kind of leash this year. I didn't like when Marner acted like a suck and I don't like it when Robertson does either. Maybe he got demoted because he was sulking about reduced ice or because he thinks he deserves top opportunity.
If he was so great, you would think Tre would have got an offer he would have accepted by now. His name has been out there forever and partly by his own request.

28 Nov 2025 17:56:45
Why is everyone trying to trade matthews because hes having a bad couple seasons...if he gets traded, a top center haz to come back, so be realistic in trade proposals..not many teams wanna trade top centers, matthews will be fine, although i would like a canadian as our captain and they should have kept tavares.. that's when things started to change...therez bound to be lots of problems cause they changed there whole atmosphere from Offfence to defence style, i knew this would happen...u cant change the way people play...if u do u got to change all ghe players who played last decade of offence first...so i can only see trades involving matthews to vegas, edmonton in swap players...draisitl or eichel..or a package of good players, matthews is still a star..hell be better.

28 Nov 2025 21:21:38
Because Mathews hasn't looked right in over a year. Will he ever look like himself again or did something happen? Is he just done as a Hart candidate now?

Wasn't that long ago he won the rocket, Hart and Lidsay. We aren't even having thoe conversations anymore.

At one point, he was talked about in the same realm as Mcdavid as an overall player. The drop off was fast.

29 Nov 2025 09:38:20
When it comes to Matthews there needs to be transparency I’d love to know what his chronic injury is because I think that’s what he’s dealing with. But also is it or is it the fact that berube plays him so much that by the time he’s done trying to keep the puck out of his net he’s got nothing to give at the other net why did they go get Roy and Laughton if there not gonna use them in their role… this is totally conspiracy talk but what if nylander doesn’t try on defence because he doesn’t wanna be put in defensive situations because his numbers just keep going up and up the stats are out there showing that all the star players elsewhere get treated like stars where they don’t get all the hard matchups. Maybe it’s a cop out but I’d like to see Matthews taken away from all those dzone starts the pk was better without him and knies so what’s that tell you I truly think berube is a big reason for the regression of this player but the leafs won’t look elsewhere.

29 Nov 2025 14:56:50
It's not about if Matthews "only" scores 40 per season to me. Ovi was pretty much in that 40 range most seasons and no one really complained Ovi didn't score more. It's the lack of physicality of Matthews. The lack of hard compete. For him to be elite, he has to also dominate in another areas if 40ish goals are going to be his average. 40 goals is great, but Phil was a 30-35 goal scorer though and didn't do much else. 40 and nothing else isn't good enough for Matthews. He needs to do more than score 40 and be defensively responsible.
He also needs to dominate some games if he is going to wear the C and get $13+M a season. He needs to be able to lead the way. Would be hard for anyone to argue that that is actually what he is doing. He looks like a higher end complimentary player atm.
As for trade props regarding him. It doesn't mean everyone wants him traded, this is a trade prop site. People post props about pretty much every Leaf player. As for trade value, personally I don't think he carries his top value atm. I don't think the return is going to be generational Matthews value. It's going to be for a solid two-way centre that can score value, with questionable health. Nor is he considered a great leader or a clutch guy. That is what he is right now and whether we like it or not, that isn't going to be get a massive McDavidesque or even close to that of a return.

28 Nov 2025 12:36:04
the media always cuts up marner cause he mentioned himself as high hockey iQ..front the topic 'me first'... well i believe surely that he has that, hes a top player in this league and was the best player leafs ever had...but he got tired of it...t.o is not for every player but it was a huge mistake, i think matthews played with marner too long.. that is whats screwed matthews playing up..


Matthews goes to vegas for eichel..

28 Nov 2025 21:22:33
He isn't a top player in the league though. Look at him in Vegas on a much better team. Probably finishes with 85-90pts as a 12m winger.

28 Nov 2025 05:31:30
Good win. Probably one of the best games I've seen from a Leaf goalie in a decade. Woll is on fire. He has to get some rest, but remain the 1A until Stolarz gets it back.

26 Nov 2025 03:40:47
Wow im wondering now if people believe me when i said, berube needs to go, treliving,joshua, i said right from when treluving was hired and berube, that they would screw this team up...ill stress sgain berube and treliving are pylon pluggers...tree we already know that he was a horrible gm and berube coaches like its 1981..the team was a high flying scoring team..shanahan did this and u cant blame him,he knew this would happen, fans called to end the shanaplan, saud that it failed, he said fawk u...ill cripple this orgsnization..keefe, dubas, and shanny was the best thing this oganization ever had, making playoffs every season and fans wined, they didnt get out of first rd, only second round once, they all dhould get fired...and do they did for worst gm in history well jfj its close, and berube in the 5 worst i guess...carlo, joshua,domi,benoit,id put on waivers and bring up the kids. Cause they do not have value, im really wondering if u could even get a second rd pick total for all...tanev is good but was a horrible signing not cause of talent but cause hes a dinosaur(brontasaurus not a trex) anymore...so def 4 got to go, along with berube and tree and coaching staff...once u replace them, leafs will rexaming....we know we need a top 6 and top pairing d, but how to get it...byram,or hughes, not with out cowan or knies and woll...i mentioned yezterday, carlo, domi, valis for byram but need to add a pick...or add quillian....hughes for knies plus i read that...we have no choice to take one step back....but people we cant trade matthews without getting a #1 center back...so if your posting matthews trade be reasonable..rlf

26 Nov 2025 08:12:34
And Shanny/ Dubas/ Keefe got this team how far exactly?

Last I recall, game 7 against Florida in the second round is the best we've seen thus far (at least tied for it) . That was without Keefe/ Dubas.

Although I'm beginning to agree they tuned out Berube entirely, I'm not going to blame that on him or Tre.

26 Nov 2025 13:10:20
I will do my best to be reasonable on my trades for a guy who can't seem to get healthy and is now playing like a 30+ goal #1 centre over still being a 50-60 goal #1 centre.

As for the rest. Berube and Tre, 1 season together and got to the 2nd round game 7. Dubas and Keefe. 5 seasons. Once to the 2nd round and out in 5 games. How that is better result than the first example, is mindboggling.

What is the common ground though. The players. They couldn't get it done in the "high flying" offence system and they couldn't get it done in the more grind it out system, although they got farther in that system.

You act like what we are seeing from this team is what we all wanted. NOBODY wanted this. The way they are playing, no one expected or predicted this. If they played like they are capable of, no one would be complaining. No system suits players that are not willing to work hard. No non-physical system where players aren't willing to grind or battle will win a Cup. This is on the players.

25 Nov 2025 14:09:08
Someone wrote this from another site I visit, and it kind of makes sense, even though Leafs are playing with losts of important injured player's.

Comments from Armstrong (2 years ago after firing Berube) and Tre last week to be interesting and revealing.

Berube is a dead man walking:

Armstrong: "It's uncomfortable when you go to the arena every night and you're not really sure what your team is going to look like."

Treliving: "A large part of the frustration is you don't know how it's going to look like (every night)."
____________________________________

Armstrong: "There were more nights than not where I felt we didn't win the game. . Not by the score, but by the eye test of 'you were a better team'

Treliving: "I think far too often, even in games that we've won, we haven't won the game."
___________________________________

Armstrong: "I don't know if we're a better team than our record indicates, I really don't."

Treliving: "I think, as we sit here today, our record is indicative of how we've played."

I have supported keeping Berube for a bit longer, but it doesn't look like his style is changing at all. Leafs can't just be a North/South team 'dumping & chasing'.
They need some kind of hybrid system with the 'dump & chase' along with possession. A 'Cheefe' style if you will.

What do you guys think now about firing Berube now, another week after we've last visited this discussion?

Sure sounds like Berube will be gone soon.

25 Nov 2025 15:16:08
Let's remember, Berube was into his 6th season with the Blues before he was let go. That's a pretty good tenure for a coach and yes, sometimes a new message is need after that amount of time. He isn't even a year and a half in Toronto and a new message is needed? He did well in STL for years before they needed a change.

This is a team that seemed mentally broken for game 1. That can't be the coaches fault. How did Berube create that?
What I see, is too many mentally weak top players (JT the exception) . Too many players that aren't willing and don't want to play the way to win. We can blame Berube and change the system, but end of the day, too many of these guys won't play a hard physical game that is necessary.
We can blame Tre as well. He inherited these guys, but also extended their contracts. In all fairness to Tre, hard to trade guys that had existing no trades when Tre took over if they don't want to go. Muskoka 5 comes to mind.
Here is the thing, do we actually think this group will play completely different and start to battle under a new coach and start to play a playoff winning style of hockey? If Berube and Tre can't get them to, why should we believe a new coach and possibly GM can. Players need to develop some "want to" instead of the current mentality of I don't want to and not going to.

25 Nov 2025 20:44:35
@RLF I'm going to counter that a bit.

Sometimes it isn't that the coach is bad, it's that the team that was built cannot or will not play his style.

They liked Keefe and hated Babs in part because they refused to play hard and wanted to dance around the perimeter. Berube isn't going to change Nylander or Mathews now. They'll be what they are until retirement.

25 Nov 2025 22:35:20
LL. That's my point, if the players won't now, then why would they under a new coach or management. They won't.

The problem is that the original construction of stars by drafting are void of "do whatever it takes" mentality. That's on Dubas and Shanny.

Tre and Berube were pretty much doomed after they lost last playoffs. Leafs stars played as physical as they ever had, they couldn't get it done. Now they don't want to because why battle and take a beating when they can't do it well enough to win. Tre would need to get guys with no moves to waive them. Doubtful that is going to happen.

26 Nov 2025 01:11:17
@RLF so it's a full rebuild with new guys or a new coach and pray for the best.

Bruce boudreau being the guy that fits this team.

26 Nov 2025 13:14:37
LL. The other option is to get healthy, play it out and hope they get so tired of losing that they dig in. If they won't, look t make moves at the TDL and maximize returns. Going to the players now and asking them to waive when they aren't out of it yet, probably gets a no. If they just keep falling off, they may be more willing to waive as it gets worse, should that be the case.
I think they need a guy like Klapka etc. Someone who will come in and set a tone when needed. Get a young wrecking ball like L'Heureux who will hit and has some talent.

25 Nov 2025 10:33:44
It is time for Toronto to trade all their first and second line players for draft picks or whatever they can get. After fifteen years of being an active fan I watched every single game for fifteen years I decided that Toronto was the wrong team to support. So I decided to stop following the NHL completely this season after game number twenty two. It is a tough decision but I need to find something more reasonable to replace it with. T. Ex fan.

25 Nov 2025 02:10:09
Werenski is Probably close to a top 5 d man in the league Matthews alone probably doesn't even get him at this point. Matthews hasent played at a superstar level for almost a year and a half.

25 Nov 2025 09:19:10
He hasn’t been healthy I blame Matthews and the team. He should of never played through the injury last year and he should of never played four nations same goes for this year they should sit him down and tell him that if he’s not 100% he’s not playing the olympics what’s he gonna do demand a trade.

24 Nov 2025 21:17:14
Was just told by a leaf, that i guess berube's jobs in the hot seat...see they need me back from retirement..me and darcy always kicked ass..