Leafs talk 2


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14 Sep 2022 12:16:53
Was listening to Jonas seigal and Jame Mirtle on the leafs report taking about who should play on the 2nd line and a name they mentioned was engvall which got me thinking how much different is engvall to mikhyev engvall is bigger plays with more bite and has better hands where mikhyev was the better one defensively and faster. This would allow the leafs to push kerfoot down an interesting conversation none the less

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14 Sep 2022 12:48:13
I was banging the drum for Mikheyev and Engvall to be JT's wingers for much of last season. Then put Kerfoot and Willy with Kampf. I thought Mikheyev had more bite than Engvall though.
Engvall, JT and Willy may work. Although I worry because Engvall's work ethic can be inconsistent and having him play with Willy won't help that.

15 Sep 2022 17:34:34
I think both Engvall and Mikheyev were inconsistent with both frustrating me at times. I always wanted more!

Both have great speed and some ability to use the body but neither are power forwards.

Neither are top6 in my eyes; they are 3rd line contributors and solid PK players.

Keep Engvall away from Nylander for exactly those reasons.

I’m ready to give Robertson a real chance to play on L2. We NEED to see what we have. Let’s hope he stays healthy so we can find out if he’s an NHLer.

If it doesn’t work there are other Marlie options who might over-achieve. Let’s hope one or both work to our favour.

16 Sep 2022 09:53:25
I agree Robertson has to play in the top 6 to be useful but I just don’t see it yet personally and with it being so crowded I think it’s gonna be tough for him to crack this roster.

16 Sep 2022 13:06:22
Agreed that Robertson needs to be put in a position to succeed. He just turned 21, so no need to rush him and he has injury history. I think he starts in the minors and Leafs look at him as a late season or playoff call up if he stays healthy and produces in the A.

13 Sep 2022 12:58:38
If the Leafs are to make no more major moves before the season starts, I'd like to see them atleast give this top 6 a try.

Bunting Mathews Nylander
Robertson Tavares Marner

The thought is that Mathews can score 50+ goals with just about anyone playing with him, this move should also elevate Nylander's game. Playing with Marner was a big reason Tavares came to Toronto, he had 47 goals in that first season playing beside him. A guy like him could benefit more from playing with Marner. Add another scorer, in Robertson, to that line. Should give you a pretty well balanced 2 scoring lines. I don't see a use for Robertson playing outside of the top 6, it's finally his time to step up to the show full time. To make all of this work, they would need to trade atleast Holl, to get under the cap. Not sure if trading him for a pick and sending Clifford and Simmonds contracts to be buried in the AHL, is enough to sign Sandin and hope he can play the right side. I still think he's a big part of this team, especially with the age on our left side. Otherwise, Kerfoot would have to be moved. They'd have enough to re sign Sandin in that case. My question is what do you think Kerfoot is worth? A 2nd?

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14 Sep 2022 12:52:26
I have said this a few times. If you want to tick Matthews off, put Nylander with him. Nylander has the talent, but his lack of drive and compete would just drive Matthews nuts imo. Matthews has grown into a guy that plays like he wants to win, like he wants to be great. Willy just likes to have the puck, otherwise he is disinterested. Willy reminds me so much of Kessel and we have seen how teammates got tired of Phil no matter where he has played.

13 Sep 2022 12:55:51
So the Leafs training camp will soon be underway!

And decisions will soon need to be made, from cap issues to what to do with Muzzin, Nylander, Sandin, Kerfoot, Holl and 1A in goal.

Add to that the question re 2ndL LW, the abundance of players competing for bottom 6.

What Marlie (s) will make the jump (Robertson, Anderson, Abruzzese, Steeves, McMann and/ or Douglas?

Interesting fun times ahead! Yippee!

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13 Sep 2022 17:46:35
I know this is a truly outside the box in comparison to all the talk, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Aube-Kubel given a try with JT and Willy. He skates well enough, forechecks, defensively responsible, plays a fairly physical game and has some ability to score. He isn't a good fighter, but he isn't afraid to engage when challenged either. He is not known for PK and neither are JT or Willy, so that line could stay intact after a penalty kill. He could be the puck retriever energy guy like Bunting is to Matthews and Marner. I know he is a right shot, but that doesn't mean he can't play the left side. Hyman did it and so do others.
I would give him a shot to see if they gel.

09 Sep 2022 22:26:00
Pretty clear with today's transaction seems like team defence will be something the leafs want in their bottom 6

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10 Sep 2022 11:30:34
Lots of options and consideration s for bottom 6.
This, to me, suggests Robertson and Steeves start in AHL.

10 Sep 2022 17:23:02
Trade Kerfoot and have Aston-Reese/ Robertson play NHL. Looks good to me.

10 Sep 2022 19:12:05
Idk if kerfoot is the play he seems like the most obvious but with him being able to play center that’s big for the pk as for Robertson I think he need more time the kids good with the puck but without it at times seems a bit lost let him play ahl games and be a 13-14 forward.

11 Sep 2022 02:14:48
@Goat I'm not sure if Robertson will ever be great without the puck. His size has a lot to do with that.

He can't play bottom 6 though. It would equivalent to putting wee willy on the 4th line. It just isn't his game.

04 Sep 2022 00:45:55
Svechnikov signs with SJS for one year @ $750k.

Leafs easily could have done this so I’m disappointed they didnt acquire him as an experiment.

It didn’t work last year with Ritchie but that was $2.5m!

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04 Sep 2022 05:02:52
I'm a bit confused by this as well.

04 Sep 2022 16:35:11
The worst part of it, he actually was a solid complimentary piece in Winning when moved up the lineup. Not great, but decent.

05 Sep 2022 13:57:52
Perhaps Winnipeg made him not want to play in Canada?

06 Sep 2022 11:38:49
@Randy. Good point. Even if it wasn't about not wanting to play in Canada, he may just have no desire to play in Toronto. Sometimes I think we forget that just because the Leafs could have offered the same or more, that doesn't mean the player would have signed it.

01 Sep 2022 13:29:21
I have mentioned Nicolas Meloche a few times as he was a guy I would have liked the Leafs to draft. He is an RD that just turned 25. Last year he played 50 games for the Sharks spending almost 70% of his Even strength starts in the D-Zone. He is big, physical, will block shots and has a bit of a mean streak. He skates well for his size and pretty safe with the puck. Kind of a poor man's Lyubuschkin. Signed for 1 year in Calgary for $.950M.

Seemed like the perfect guy for Dubas to take a flyer on, but instead he signs Mete.

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02 Sep 2022 03:23:01
I like the target, but as you said, Mete is the future. Mitch Marner on Defence.

29 Aug 2022 22:01:46
On what planet can the leafs afford Kane.

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30 Aug 2022 00:00:26
Drop Kerfoot and Holl, get 50% retention on Kane.

30 Aug 2022 17:48:11
There are lots of option for any team to get any player.

26 Aug 2022 20:50:00
I will suggest there are only a few Dmen that are better value than Justin Holl.

He’s not without his warts, like hanging onto the puck too long, but he perhaps is not a player that should be traded.

Could he possibly play the strong defender with Reilly freeing up Brodie to play the right side with Sandin once (and if) he’s resigned.

I still think Muzzin is the player with the biggest gap between play level and salary.

Get a draft pick from a team that wants a veteran Dman, resign Sandin and go after both Svechnikov and Virtanen.

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26 Aug 2022 22:28:24
I really don't see Holl as value in the same way. He's a bottom pairing guy that makes bottom pairing money. Nothing more.

Would haven't have just kept Boosh.

27 Aug 2022 15:42:53
Agree on Boosh but since he’s gone thought I would try something different.

Trading Holl saves so very little on the cap and he’s really not a bad Dman.

He’s worked out okay as a 2nd pairing RD so wondered about giving him a look-see with Reilly.

I don’t recall that combo before so willing to try it.

28 Aug 2022 05:18:14
I know everyone is running with that article that Holl is a wall, I just don't agree. I think he's a higher end 3rd pairing defence man playing 15 mins a night. Playing shutdown minutes on the second pair, is where my issue comes in.

29 Aug 2022 11:40:47
Holl can't play with Rielly because of his puck indecision. Rielly needs a steady guy who moves it quick so that Rielly isn't having to worry about hanging back and covering someone else mistakes. Holl indecision takes him off the 2nd pair as well imo. A team like the Leafs cap wise, can't afford $2M on the 3rd pair.
If Holl is still around at the start of the season, he has better worked out his confidence issues because otherwise we have a pretty poor 2nd pair of him and Muzzin unless Lily works out well with Muzzin.

29 Aug 2022 12:19:32
Okay, I a bit bit better and think he can learn to make the simple 10’ pass to an open winger or C,

But trade him to NYI for a 3rd (or 4th) round pick and sign RD Michael Stone to the minimum and then get Svechnikov.

Stone is a 6/ 7 Dman who is reliable, has a physical edge and a good shot. Essentially the same player at less money.

29 Aug 2022 13:58:51
I thought Holl had that sorted 2 seasons ago, but last season it was back. He is 30 years old, I think he is what he is. I don't think there is a lot of learning he will still do. You either get a confident Holl who plays above his pay, or you get the more common indecisive Holl that eats it whenever the path to move the puck is not 100% clear.

30 Aug 2022 12:40:23
Do you guys think Liljegren can make the jump to first pairing by mid-season?
He's shown substantial improvement last season.
He's a great skater and defends well off the rush. Makes a good first pass out of their zone and confidence is increasing with more playing experience.
This way line ups can be:
Rielly Liljegren
Muzzin Brodie (ideal shutdown pairing)
Sandin Giordano/ Holl.

31 Aug 2022 06:53:14
@Tagz I think it was was Craiggers that hyped Lili when we all called him a bust.

He's definitely looking like a top 4 D right now. Have to give credit where it's due. He was right.

I do think, based on last season, Lili will take a step.

31 Aug 2022 11:39:06
I still have Liljegren as a 4/ 5 ceiling and Sandin a 2/ 3 ceiling. I don't think Lily will be the ideal partner for Rielly. He is not physical enough and not trustworthy enough yet to let Rielly just play his game. He has improved. He is moving the puck quicker etc, but he is still too easily overpowered by opponents and lacks the experience of how to compensate.

31 Aug 2022 21:14:45
I agree he's definitely not a #2, but without any trades, I think this may be an option.
I really would like to see a Brodie/ Muzzin shutdown unit if possible. It's the best case scenario for Muzzin to play with a reliable partner so he just play his own game without worrying about his partner.

31 Aug 2022 22:17:32
@RLF you see him as a 4/ 5? I see Lily as a possible 2/ 3 one day.

01 Sep 2022 13:07:01
@LL. Technically you can slot anyone anywhere, so I guess it is subjective. Boosh and Hainsey played as #2's, but I don't think either is a true #2. A true #2 to me is Brodie, Weegar etc. I don't think Lily ever gets there. I see him as a solid 2nd pair guy or an excellent 3rd pair D. He looked very good last season with softer matchups, but didn't look so good when moved up in the pairings and playing tougher competition. He just turned 23, so there is still room for some growth, but I think he peeks at a very good #4. Sandin on the other hand looked really good against soft competition and held his own when moved up. Skating will be an issue, but he thinks the game very well and a year younger than Lily so he should be behind him in development, but I feel he is ahead of Lily.

If Lily can progress to a true 2/ 3, that would be a huge bonus and I hope he does.

01 Sep 2022 13:11:53
@Tagz. I agree on Muzzin/ Brodie pairing. That is ideal and Gio with Lily etc. Leafs need to make a move for a RD that can play with Rielly. That should be their #1 priority. imo.

01 Sep 2022 13:54:33
I guess I'm inbetween you both. I think Liljegren should max out to a solid 3/ 4. Maybe he can eventually/ possibly play #2 if Leafs were to have a true #1 (as much as I like Rielly, he's not a true #1 IMO) .

@RLF I've seen your prop for Peeke. I admit I really don't know much about him other than what I've read and the few games I've watched Columbus play against the Leafs. Love his size and physicality so he does sound like a good target, but again we are rolling the dice that he can play top pairing minutes with Rielly and we are trading away one of our top prospects in Robertson according to your prop. Even though Robertson has yet to prove anything, we've spent lots of time developing him. I would have no problem with this trade had Amirov been healthty. I think his status changed everything with our top prospect pool trades.

01 Sep 2022 18:52:12
@Tagz. Leafs may only have two more years of Matthews. Who likely takes us farther, Matthews or Robertson? Having Robertson does us no good if Matthews is gone because we can't get past the first round. Build for now. If Matthews hangs around, we always have a chance. Let's remember that Robertson is a prospect and nothing more at this point. Peeke just turned 24. We are not talking about a 30 year old D-man. Just my take.

As for Peeke, he is what the Leafs can afford if Dubas isn't willing to move one of the top 4 forwards. I am not convinced he can play with Rielly, but I think he is a better bet than anyone else they have, except Brodie, whom I would like to see with Muzzin.

As I said for projections on Lily or anyone for that matter, it all depends on someone's definition of a true #1,#2,#3 etc. To be a 3 in my opinion, you have to be able to anchor the 2nd pair. You have to be better than a 4.
To me a #1 is a clear top tier D (I believe Rielly is one, but not in the top of that tier) . A #2 is slightly above a 3. He has to be able to play against top competition and can fill in as the lead guy if the #1 gets hurt or easily be the best D-man on the second pair. A #3 needs to be the better D-man on the 2nd pair, but he isn't good enough to play in the #1 role if injury occurs. #4 and #5 are not much different in my mind. Usually depends on style of play as to where they are suited. #6 is an NHLer that can eat up 13-15 mins a night without costing on the scoreboard against. Most of the time a physical player or aging vet.

02 Sep 2022 06:08:51
@ELF that's true.

I didn't mean how I see Lily right now though, more as a projection.

Lily looks great as a future asset, I don't see Sandin the same way.

@tagz you may be right there, and probably are. Lily probably does end up as a 2-4 in some way. True 1D are extremely rare.

02 Sep 2022 11:59:04
I knew you were projecting his growth and not talking now. I hope you guys are right.

02 Sep 2022 14:15:38
Hopefully LL and I are right about Lily's projection, but you're right about targeting a big physical D-man now during Matthews tenure even if it means losing one of our top forward prospects.
If you remember, I did a propsal for Lyubushkin last season and he pretty much came as advertised. Maybe mis-used a bit on the top pairing, but it allowed the other pairings to fall into place and Peeke could potentially allow us to do the same. You've talked me into Peeke, I'm all in. Dubas get 'er done!

02 Sep 2022 15:14:27
@Tagz. I didn't even have to work that hard to convince you this time. lol

Even if Lily tops out a good 4, that is still a solid D-man.

02 Sep 2022 17:31:08
@RLF lol true that.
I've always wanted us to target a big tough physical RHD. I was just hesitant to move Robertson, but what you said about Matthews makes sense.
Even if Peeke and Rielly don't have chemistry, we can move Peeke to shut down pairing with Muzzin and move Brodie back with Rielly. Solid top 4 with Giordano/ Lily/ Sandin on the 3rd pair.

02 Sep 2022 22:24:56
@Tagz. You read my mind ( or my posts lol) on the D pairings and why I like the idea of adding Peeke as much as I do.


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