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RLF's rumours posts with other poster's replies to RLF's rumours posts
24 May 2023 12:52:41
Is Calgary in the mood for another big trade this summer and if Matthews doesn't want to re-sign could there be something between the two.
Cal
Matthews $11.64M
Tor
Lindholm $4.85M
Andersson $4.55M
Ciona ELC
Calgary gets the big fish. D is where their strength is and they have the most depth. Hubi setting up Matthews could be scary and then Kadri as the 2C. Cap may be an issue for Calgary here though.
Toronto gets a replacement centre in Lindholm who is also set to become a UFA at end of season like Matthews. He doesn't have the overall talent of Matthews, but a good two way centre. They also get a top 4 right side D to play with Rielly and a big power forward winger prospect that plays a hard, physical game.
1.) 24 May 2023 14:39:40
Honestly there’s no winning a Matthews trade I like the players but I think I’d like an upgrade on the prospect coming back probably zary.
2.) 24 May 2023 17:57:56
@Goat. I agree. Almost impossible for the Leafs to win a Matthews trade.
3.) 25 May 2023 01:26:54
Calgary has already experienced the departure of Tkachuk and Gaudreau.
No way they will set themselves up for a repeat of that scenario as there is little likelihood of Matthews signing an extension with the Flames.
4.) 25 May 2023 12:18:13
@WB49. True that there is no guarantee they re-sign Matthews, but there is also no guarantee that Lindholm re-signs.
5.) 26 May 2023 02:17:55
Matthews will not be signing an extension in Calgary. If he goes to UFA. He will sign in L. A, NYR, or Arizona. Its where his ego fits.
23 May 2023 13:07:48
Carolina needs scoring and has cap space next season and running out of time with their core players.
Car
Nylander $6.96M
Tor
Kotkaniemi $4.82M
Gunlar ELC
2023 1st
2023 3rd (Phil)
Carolina gets a point producer plain and simple.
Toronto gets a young and improving C in Kotkaniemi who is cost controlled for years to come. He can play 3C or the wing. Gunlar is a B prospect with a great shot and two more picks + $2M in cap space.
1.) 23 May 2023 13:31:09
Need pesce or slavin.
2.) 23 May 2023 14:02:56
Idk if that’s a package I’d love for willy the value is about right tho.
3.) 23 May 2023 21:27:39
Canes are about to be swept because they can't score. Could work for both sides.
21 May 2023 13:51:52
If dealing Marner, I am confident the Leafs would rather send him out west, but there are teams in the east that could take his contract and have pieces the Leafs would want. I have mentioned Buffalo in the past as a potential trade partner on a big trade.
Buf
Marner $10.89M
Tor
Quinn ELC
Jokiharju $2.5M
Nadeau ELC
1.) 22 May 2023 01:33:59
I like it.
I remember you bringing up this exact trade awhile back (or close to it? ) And thought it was solid then as well.
Sabres are very, very close in many ways. Especially with two defenceman like Dahlin and Max Powers (lol) they might just need a bit more scoring and some goaltending in the future.
2.) 22 May 2023 03:25:58
@LL. Actually I have hardly ever done a Marner trade. I had Nylander for Kulich, Murray and a 1st I think. Maybe that is what you are thinking of.
3.) 22 May 2023 06:10:40
Hear me out .
Rielly- (brodie out and marner or nylander)
Mccabe-schenn
Gio-liljegren
Timmins (7th)
16 May 2023 14:09:48
LA
Marner $10.89M
Tor
Arvidsson $4.25M
Vilardi RFA
Clarke ELC
1.) 16 May 2023 18:34:08
@RLF. we are kinda on the same page here. i did a cap friendly yesterday but had Matthews instead of Marner and was trying to acquire Vilardi, Kempe and Clarke. then try to flip AMrner elsewhere. keep Willy. he can be our Phil kessel once we get more tenacity/ pushback in the lineup.
2.) 17 May 2023 02:13:06
I like it. Grittier to surround Willy, JT and Mathews.
15 May 2023 12:46:03
Personally, I think if the Leafs actually traded Matthews, they would get a boatload.
Two proposals of what I think it might look like value wise.
Nash
Matthews $11.64M
Tor
Johansen $8M
Lauzon $2M
2X 2023 1st(Nash,Edm)
Schaefer ELC
Askarov ELC
Or
Ana
Matthews $11.64M
Tor
Terry RFA
Gaucher ELC
Zellweger ELC
Pastujov ELC
2023 2nd
2024 1st unprotected
1.) 16 May 2023 00:57:17
They won't much uncertainty about an him signing an extension. The leafs have until July 1 to trade him wherever they want or can. lets face it if they trade him to say Winnipeg or Columbus hes not signing long term in those markets. so unless there is an extension in place this boatload will not happen.
2.) 16 May 2023 01:13:12
@1967. What are you basing this opinion off of? Not the history of NHL trades.
Meier got a really good return for a couple months service and a $10M qualifying offer to keep him. Matthews would return more than Meier.
RLF's banter posts with other poster's replies to RLF's banter posts
26 May 2023 12:50:50
Did anyone see that Dubas is being investigated by the NHLPA for conflict of interest?
So Dubas hired the same agency to represent him in his recent negotiations with MLSE that represents Matthews. What a coincidence. lol
He hires the same agency to represent him that took him to the cleaners on Matthews contract.
It is not the same agent, but they work in the same office in a different department. This is a big No, No. Of course the fear is that Dubas agent can talk to Matthews agent and share info they have been told by their client or leak info that should be confidential.
More and more each day coming out about Dubas and how he dos things. Not so squeaky clean.
1.) 26 May 2023 18:34:19
I'm seeing "insiders" report this as either a mistake or that Dubas didn't hire this individual, the agent just helped him out as a favour. This whole situation rubbed me the wrong way as well.
I know everyone seems to be taking aides in this whole situation. Shanny or Dubas, but from where I'm sitting, both have made many mistakes and lapses in judgement and both are at fault for many things.
2.) 26 May 2023 18:39:23
Saw that last night. dunno if anything comes of it. but the Witchhunt is on by MLSE to bury Dubas. lol.
3.) 26 May 2023 20:36:40
@Loxley it was initiated by the NHLPA. I don't think it had anything to do with MLSE directly.
4.) 26 May 2023 20:55:10
@LL But could they not have been tuipped off? i mean why did it take them this long to find out?
5.) 26 May 2023 22:05:53
So what if Dubas signs somewhere else and Matthews stalls until July 1st passes and then says he wants a trade, but will only except being traded to where Dubas signed. lol
I heard that it was other player agent (s) that complained. Don't know if it is true.
6.) 26 May 2023 23:31:20
@RLF that's the rumour right now, but as Loxley said, who knows for sure.
7.) 27 May 2023 03:31:22
@LL. As I said, it's what I heard but I can't confirm it. It would make sense though that other player agents complained since it's against the rules. I'm sure they all would like a back door line directly to the GM.
Since Dubas was a player agent in his younger years, he would know better than to do this. Not sure how he figured no one would notice. Like I've said numerous times, he is way too close to his players. It's like he created a frat house with his young stars.
23 May 2023 15:26:44
So Dubas puts out a statement saying he won't go into specifics about his departure. What specifics haven't been said Kyle? It was you who came out to the media saying you wanted time to think and weren't sure if you wanted to keep being the GM of the Leafs. You also said you asked Shanny to do your presser alone. You already told all there is to tell.
You said you weren't sure you wanted the job and then within a couple of days you were sure you wanted it. Yeah right.
You got called out on your BS. It's as simple as that. Of course you don't want to discuss it.
I predict right now that he will not honour his statement that it is Toronto or nowhere and he signs with another team. He will then claim that he realized he would miss the game too much if he wasn't working in it, or some crap like that.
1.) 24 May 2023 02:55:04
A lot of great points and observations made in these posts. Dubas gone is okay by me, and good luck. A lot of Presidents have carried out the GM duties over the years and it is at such a crossroads with crucial players that maybe Shanny should handle the transactions himself. Pridham can help with the numbers. Put best possible offers together for whoever it is you want to keep and sell them on it. Do it quickly, as the timing is obviously part of the strategy of everyone involved. If Shanny is the man, let him be the man. Can hire a GM later. Dubas' timing is very suspicious to me, but already water under the bridge. Does Austin want to be here - Yes or No straight up. There is no way that Shanny can even go to July 1st. Next ten years are going to be the results of these decisions. Anyone coming in has about 5 weeks to get acclimated and make decisions, that have a decade of implications based on them. Very big ask of anyone. Has to be Shanny.
2.) 24 May 2023 03:39:55
Again, I agree with everything here. Dubas is caught out as the fool, with his asinine comments.
@Gary Very true. The time to move on is now. It seems like Brad Treliving will be offering pizza very soon. In a way, he is the absolute best man for the job though. He just dealt with a rental and got a great return.
Maybe at some point, we will know what the issue was between Shanny and Dubas, but that time isn't now.
3.) 24 May 2023 12:33:48
@Gary. I agree. How things are handled with Matthews and Nylander specfically this summer as well as what the future hold for Marner and possibly JT (A new GM may be able to make him waive his NMC, who knows) are will affect the team for years to come.
23 May 2023 03:20:58
One thing Shanahan said has really stuck with me and got me thinking a lot about it.
In regards to the TDL. Shanahan said "I think Kyle did an excellent job. He made some very good moves, and I thought he had prepared the team to the best of his ability as any GM can do." That's high praise for a guy you just let go. Then why let him go?
Let's take a look at who Dubas traded for. O'Reilly, Acciari, McCabe, Lafferty, Schenn and Gustafsson. Other than Gustafsson, all of these guys have some skill, but more importantly, they are all guys that play a hard game. There is not one small, skilled guy. They all have grit. No perimeter players in the group. With Gustafsson, the Leafs also got a 1st round pick.
The reason I find it interesting is because Shanahan gave Dubas credit for these moves and offered a contract extension after it. If Shanahan didn't like these types of players, (according to reports of him blocking moves Dubas wanted to make) he would have blocked these moves.
This leads me to think the types of moves Dubas may have wanted to make that got blocked were ones that were to acquire players that were not these types of players. Maybe Dubas had not really moved on from skill will prevail despite lack of size or the lack of desire to play hard and heavy.
Also take into account that Dubas wanted to speak to the press Monday. This was his choice. Shanny said he chose not to, although Dubas said he told Shanny he needs to come out alone. Who's telling the truth?
Take into account that apparently what he said about not being sure if he still wanted to be the Leafs GM surprised Shanny. According to Shanny, they talked again after Dubas presser and Shanahan still wasn't sure Dubas wanted to come back. After this conversation, Shanny receives an offer from Dubas agent for even more money than expected and I wouldn't be surprised if more control was in there as well.
It was after Dubas presser that Shanahan started to change his mind after previously offering and discussing an extension. That would lead me to believe that Shanny was telling the truth.
I said before I think Dubas wanted to basically role it back again. I think he had no desire to trade any of the core 4. He wants the skill. He wants his guys and doesn't have it in him to make the kind of deal that would move one of them. I also think he wanted Keefe back.
In the past I have said that I think Dubas biggest issue is that he wants to be the players friend. He wants the players to like him. When you listen to Leafs players talk about him, they basically say they love the guy. Why wouldn't they. I mean if you are a top talent, he hands out big contracts and will never trade you regardless of playoff success or failure.
Dubas wanted too much money and control. But I think more importantly, like I said before, I don't think Shanny liked how he used the press and I don't think Shanny and the board believe that Dubas will make changes that the team needs because he is too close to players and his coach. Dubas by all accounts is a nice guy, but maybe too nice and can't put business first and foremost.
On the ice side, Dubas has never paid money for a goalie. The most he paid salary wise are Murray and Mrazek. He wouldn't pay Campbell. He wouldn't pay Freddie.
I think if Dubas came back, it would have been the same old same old. Core 4 plus bargain shopping on the bottom 6 and D core and in net. Dubas isn't willing to change enough and that is also a big reason he was let go.imo
Now the interesting part for Dubas. What matters to him more, his word to not take another job or to put his plan in play somewhere else? One thing to consider, if the takes a job elsewhere, he becomes a liar to all in the hockey world. Makes me wonder what some of the Leafs players will then think about all the stuff he said to them if he lies and takes another job. Can the players really still believe anything he said after he emotionally said he doesn't have it in him to work elsewhere and it is only the Leafs he wants to be with, which in turn means he doesn't want to work with other players, just the players he loves in Toronto.
In the end, Dubas got what he deserved for playing the media and thinking he could outsmart everyone and they would cave because in his mind he is so great and irreplaceable. And if he takes another job, he tarnishes his image and anyone he works with will have trouble trusting what he says to be true. Poetic justice really.
1.) 23 May 2023 06:41:49
I'm in agreement with all of this.
We all have lives and jobs, we have all known someone who saw themselves as irreplaceable, and learned a very quick lesson. This is exactly what happened to Dubas from what I can tell.
As Shanny, I would have Dubas go as well for that press conference alone.
He wanted more control, but if these are the trades Dubas makes, what did Shanny block? Hagel for Knies+++ is apparently a rumour, but who knows. If that's true, then Dubas really did need a baby sitter.
2.) 23 May 2023 15:13:14
Ok well my counter to this post would be this it has come out that shanny blocked trade dubas wanted to make what they were no one will ever know but shanny also made moves where he overstepped dubas in which dubas didn’t agree with again what they were we will never know.
Now that we know this shannys finger prints are all over this team which has not done anything in the core 4 era so my question is why did shanahan not only get to keep his job but then get to go on live tv and basically make dubas look like the a hole. You also mentioned that you thought dubas was willing to run it back with the core in which he said nothing was off the table in terms of trades but yet shanny called all of the core before firing dubas stating he wants them all back so again who was/ is pulling the strings.
So now my final point is regardless of dubas being fired or not it has been leaked that a lot of players are pissed that dubas was let go and voiced it during the end of season meetings. now Matthews is unlikely to sign an extension July 1 so the leafs either have to trade him or let him walk at the end of the year and what’s likely gonna happen is a rebuild. all because shanahans ego is too big that he wouldn’t allow dubas to report directly to the board so that he could get approval for things like signings and trades… this team could be very screwed very quickly and i personally put it on the longest tendered member of the front office.
3.) 23 May 2023 15:36:28
I'm not here advocating that Dubas should stay, but just to view from another angle.
In the Dubas press release he did reference possibly a big trade as Calagry did last year with Tkachuk.
Maybe we're looking at this all wrong. Perhaps Dubas wanted to trade someone from the Core and Shanahan said NO.
Lots of rumors going out now that Shanahan reassured the Core that they will not be traded.
Maybe this is where their disagreements came from and not the smaller trades we're referencing. And I still believe it was Shanahan that wanted Kadri gone and forced Dubas to make that trade.
4.) 23 May 2023 17:42:04
@RLF. dunno if you are a wrestling fan. but all i could think of when you wrote about how Dubas wanted to be the players friends. and give them big paydays was that sounded so much like Eric Bishoff back in WCW and the NWO. and how chumming it up with all the cool wrestlers killed that wrestling organization. lol
@Tag. let's hope your not right on that devil's advocate thing. Dubas not commenting on it either means Shanny told the truth or it's just Dubas being Dubas and keeping things close to the vest. all i know is this is a mess of an off season.
5.) 23 May 2023 18:34:17
@Goat/ Tagz
It's fair arguments, but we massively disagree on what happened. In all fairness, most Presidents oversee GM's moves. Especially rookie GM's. Very few GM's have full autonomy to do as they please and it would have been foolish of the Leafs to give Dubas full control from day 1. Most Presidents have to discuss things with the Board. It's normal.
I have to ask. You don't find it odd that until this year Shanny has always sat with Dubas during his presser and always given his support to the team "vision" and Dubas himself? Then coincidentally when Shanny isn't there, Dubas states he is not sure he wants to move forward as GM. That doesn't seem suspicious to you guys? He says he needs time to discuss with his family and unpack all that has happened this year and the toll it has taken etc and then 3 days later says he is all sorted and now he is committed to the job for the long haul. 3 Days after his presser is all it took. Really? You buy that? Sorry, I don't.
As for what type of trades were apparently nixed, of course we are all speculating. Let's remember it was Dubas who claimed he wasn't trading 1st's or high end prospects prior to the trade deadline and then traded Sandin and also the Leafs 1st round pick. He also said he isn't really interested in rentals, but pretty much everyone he traded for was a rental. So either Dubas wasn't being honest, or even if it was Shanny that controlled the deadline trades, then Shanny deserves the credit for those moves and not Dubas. What was Dubas going to do? Go into the playoffs with what he had? I doubt any of us would think that was a good move. Shanny also said multiple times that the trades, signings etc were Kyle's job and he thought he did a good job. Didn't bring up how bad the Mrazek or Murray stuff was. Even in the aftermath, he praised Dubas for his moves.
As I already said, of course the players like him. He gives them everything they want and never blames them for their failures. If the Leafs do trade them, good luck to them on other teams because they will be called out by coaches and GM's for their failures. The all inclusive resort feeling Dubas created with them needs to go. What do the players want more, a winning culture and success even if it means some tough talk, or to be pampered with overvalued contracts and sheltered from responsibility? If it is the latter, I hope they are all traded.
I think what has happened hurts Dubas more than The Leafs ability to attract a new GM. Most feel Dubas used the presser to try and gain leverage in negotiations and lost. He doesn't want to speak on it because he knows if he does and tries to cast a negative tone on Shanny or the Leafs, he will basically blackball himself from any new opportunity. I watched Shanny's full presser and I don't see how people think he made Dubas like like an A-hole. He complimented him beyond belief. I never heard him say the core 4 is safe. He actually reiterated what Dubas said about nothing is off the table and that he agreed with Dubas on that.
Shanny got to speak because Dubas already spoke. Dubas made it sound like he is in charge. It is totally his decision on whether he comes back and the Leafs will wait. He made Shanahan appear weak and that Dubas really runs things. If Shanny was actually micromanaging Dubas, than how come Dubas felt he could take his time to make a decision on whether he wants to stay or not? That doesn't make any sense.
All Dubas had to do was keep his mouth shut about wanting to think it over, but he had to go take it to the press. Even after Shanny suggested he wait to talk to the press until after they had a new deal in place which seemed imminent. That tells me something about Dubas and his ego. There is no good reason to bring that up to the press. He wanted people to beg him to come back. He wanted all the people/ media to talk about what a relief it is that he actually re-signed. Remember, it only took him 3 days to decide he wanted to come back and was ready to continue as the Leafs GM. His distressed family was all supportive enough and Dubas had unpacked everything in under 3 days? Not a chance. He used it to try to get more money.
6.) 23 May 2023 18:40:50
@Loxley. LOL Casual wrestling fan at best. I didn't know that about Bishoff. It will be interesting to see how Dubas does somewhere else.
7.) 23 May 2023 19:15:03
@RLF you may be completely right.
My thinking:
Is Dubas not saying anything ATM because he's still under contract till June 30th?
Maybe he doesn't want to say anything ATM because he has an ideal of the Leafs vision moving forward and he doesn't want to jeopardize the proceedings? I don't know.
It just strikes me odd that Shanahan's press release on Friday was too neat
He makes a,
Bullet point . answer, another
Bullet point . answer, another
Bullet point . answer
There's something else there and we may never find out is all I'm saying.
Anyways, hopefully Dean Lombardi is a target.
8.) 23 May 2023 22:32:30
@Tags. I am sure Shanny's presser was well rehearsed. You don't think Dubas's was?
The whole thing goes back to Dubas presser and that seems to be getting forgotten. If someone can explain to me a viable reason of why in the middle of a contract negotiation Dubas would tell the press what he did, I am all ears.
I can only think of one viable reason and I have tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, but it makes no sense unless he had a angle he was playing. He could have easily said "That is something that I leave to my agent. " Simple. Done. But instead he went into his family, whether he still wanted to do it etc. He can't think the media is his friends. It looked to me like he was looking for sympathy on how hard the job is.
Anyhow, an thoughts on why he did it other than what I have said?
9.) 23 May 2023 23:20:40
My only thing I will say is he not allowed to be as upset as the players keep in mind he has just as much time put into the team he never put a time line on when he would decide but I’ll say this idc if dubas is the gm or not I just think shanny should be out the door long before anyone the shanaplan never worked it’s over time for this team to move on from him.
10.) 24 May 2023 01:41:51
@RLF. so just to put more info on the wrestling thing . this Buschoff guy ran WCW. used Ted turners money and signed a bunch of WWE stars to big money with ridiculous conditions. gave them creative control. guaranteed contracts and they did not have to wrestle there as much as in WWE. so basically the inmates were running the asylum. WCW was eventually bought by WWE. so basically Kyle is Bischoff and the core 4 the over paid talent that doesn't show up when it matters. lol.
11.) 24 May 2023 02:34:12
@goat. All good. I can understand why someone would want Shanny gone. My thoughts were on Dubas and why he was let go. Nothing to do with if Shanny should still be here. That is a different discussion. Imo.
@Loxley. Lol. Good analogy. I knew who Bishoff is and he ran the WCW, I didn't know the whole back story though. Thanks for the info.
12.) 24 May 2023 13:40:49
@RLF As I said above, I don't advocate what Dubas has done. He deserves to get what he got and I agree with what you've said above. Dubas did over play his hand.
Initially, I believe it was more about autonomy, just being able to present his own trade proposals other than going through Shanahan (seems like he wanted to be treated as an equal) . Once that wasn't happening (rightfully so), he then over played his hand again by asking for more money. He did bury himself.
I just think it was more of a vision discrepancy and I'm thinking the opposite. I think Shanahan is the one who wants to keep the Core in place and Dubas doesn't (I think Dubas was/ is willing to trade one of the Core as he said during his presser when referencing the Treliving trade from last year) . Just speculation on my part.
No rhyme or reason to back up my opinion other than the news that Shanahan pretty much assured the Core that they will remain next season. He may has just said it for damage control for the moment. Again we will have to wait and see if this actually comes to fruition.
13.) 24 May 2023 15:05:22
@Tags.
You maybe right on Shanahan not wanting to trade the core 4. Although he did say in his presser he agreed with Dubas that nothing should be off the table.
I heard the reports as well that players have said that Shanahan told them that basically he wants them here. I have not heard that he told them they won't be moved though, which in my mind is different. I think it was a little damage control as you said. By all accounts Dubas got close to his players and he probably had told some that there is an offer on the table for him to stay and he expects to be back. So the firing would be a huge surprise and in general, people don't like big change especially when they are comfortable as is.
It has always been Dubas that has said "they can and they will". It was Dubas that said he won't trade Nylander as long as he is GM when Willy signed his deal. Personally, the impression I get is that Dubas is too close to the stars especially. That's my read on it. Wrong or right, that is what I think. The stars also don't play like they think they are in any jeopardy to be moved. The fact that the players don't seem happy Dubas is gone, suggests to me that they are now worried he isn't there to protect them and keep them together. If it is Shanny that wants to keep them together and Dubas wants to move one or some, why aren't they happy Dubas is gone? You would think they would be relieved, but apparently they are not happy Kyle was fired. That makes no sense to me if Dubas was the one willing to move one of them.
20 May 2023 13:17:00
Here's my take on how Dubas got let go. Apparently they offered Dubas a contract and apparently he wanted more control. Working on this as some kind of foundation of being somewhat true.
Dubas does his presser and decides he is going to use the media to try and put a little pressure on Shanahan by saying he is not sure if he will come back, but won't go anywhere else. He tells the media he needs time to think this through knowing the Leafs don't really have time to wait for him. In other words, give in to my demands or I am not signing. Dubas even said it was his choice to do his presser alone. There was a reason he didn't want Shanahan up there with him because of what he was about to do. He wanted everyone to know how loyal he is to the Leafs and its players so if he doesn't resign people will think it was because of his family and not about money or control.
This pissed Shanahan off big time. He probably felt betrayed as he has sat up there after every playoff failure and supported Dubas. He has supported his decisions publicly all along. He is ticked enough at the gamesmanship that he fires him and now put the pressure back on Dubas to honour what he said in his presser that it was Toronto or he will take time off and not sign elsewhere.
Personally, I think Dubas wanted to basically role it back and keep his word to Willy and the rest that he won't trade them as long as he was GM and that is why he wanted control and probably more money than offered. He probably wanted Keefe back as well.
Shanny and/or above wanted change and didn't like how Dubas played the "I" haven't decided if "I" will come back and need time to think. It was a pretty arrogant thing to say as if he is in charge of whether he stays or goes.
Ultimately they decided on change all around and expect a new GM and coach and changes to the roster.
1.) 20 May 2023 17:32:04
He played chicken with MLSE using his family as an excuse. and got run out of town. should have never said that in public. in the end. Kyle proved something to us we already all knew. not only were the core fours contracts all bad and messed up by him. but he showed he could not even negotiate a proper deal for himself. "We can and we will" sent a message to the players that they were gonna whatever term and dollar they wanted. he put his foot in his mouth and could not remove it. he thought why not. maybe I can ask for the moon . why should the players be the only ones to benefit.
There is just something so fitting that his time with the leafs ended with the fact the last contract he tried to negotiate was his own.
2.) 20 May 2023 18:14:10
@RLF I have heard both sides articulate a strong argument towards what exactly, Dubas wanted. Personally, I see it more as money than control, but again, we have no idea how much Shanny takes control of this team on a daily basis.
As you said, I can see a s enario where Dubas went to Shanny and said "I want to run it back again. We made it to the second round, that's progress. We are going to resign MNM+JT and all will be fine" now if that rumour is even remotely true, then Dubas is completely blind to this teams shortcomings.
@Loxley I agree he overplayed his hand, and I have to wonder, what was he thinking? He was offered in the neighborhood of 5m per season, according to some reports. Dubas tried pushing his luck more, then Spezza quit? Everything is just so odd.
3.) 20 May 2023 18:38:15
@Loxley. It seems fitting in more ways than one. To me, it is how he was always so arrogant that he could build a team differently that could win a Cup. From small and skilled will overcome grit and desire. Massive contracts to multiple stars and support them with cheap contracts. Size and experience are overrated.
He was so sure of himself that he insisted on doing it his way despite fans etc screaming that it isn't working. Finally he shifts gears and has better success this year.
How many times have many fans screamed that the core 4 makes too much towards the cap and they don't have enough bite, but Dubas refused to make a change to the core 4.
Ultimately, it was his own arrogance again in thinking he is so great that he could play his little game with the media and get Shanny to cave in, but unlike Dubas, Shanny didn't cave. There is some poetic justice to it and other teams management and ownership won't like what Dubas did either. He may have screwed himself out of his next job as well.
I thought Dubas was starting to develop into a better GM than when he started. Still not a good GM, but getting better. To have the arrogance to think you can make a franchise like the Leafs wait or that if he decides not to come back he can take time off and when he is ready again teams will be knocking down his door to sign him suggests he hasn't grown that much afterall.
4.) 20 May 2023 19:51:55
James mirtle reported that shanahan blocked several trades at key points in the last several seasons and also dictated moves that shanny wanted that dubas didn’t agree with so tell me again how does shanahan still have a job if his finger prints are all over this team.
5.) 20 May 2023 23:15:58
@Goat I remember Shanny also nixed a contract with Marner, during the contract fiasco.
There's two ways to look at that. Either the team would be far better off with Dubas than Shanny, or Shanny prevented some catastrophic failures.
Dubas' tenure was marred with some really bad trades, so I'm not sure.
6.) 20 May 2023 23:17:28
@goat. I also agree. I think they both should be gone. tgee us always two sides to a story then the truth lies somewhere in the middle. weeillneverget all the facts. but u fortunately I think becausegwreusso much to do as far as signing or trading parts of the core four I think MLSE has to keep shanny. if this team had missed the playoffs I think we would have seen both heads roll.
7.) 21 May 2023 02:06:20
Yea I agree boys we won’t ever know what could of been not that it matters I just would love nothing more than to get rid of shanny and his bull shanaplan.
8.) 21 May 2023 13:59:48
Agree with LL here. Shanny's "interference" may have avoided disaster or prevented some good moves. We will never know. Regardless, Dubas's play backfired on him and Leafs now move forward and hopefully the new GM along with management make some shrewd moves to keep building towards a winner.
9.) 21 May 2023 15:26:56
I would love to see Dubas come out and tell his side of the story. maybe shanny gets thrown under the bus. until that happens the blame falls on Dubas., but ya have to wonder how tough it is to make a move if in fact shanny was blocking him.
16 May 2023 13:50:57
Question.
Why do there seem to be so many that think if the Leafs traded Matthews prior to July 1st the Leafs wouldn't get a huge return?
It's a serious question. Because there is nothing in the history of NHL trades that suggest the Leafs wouldn't get a boatload. He is arguably a top 10 player in the NHL. Not many would argue against that.
Look what Meier got at the TDL and he has a $10M qualifying offer if the Devils want to keep him and he won't end up a TDL rental. Lets look at some examples of UFA deals at the past TDL.
Bertuzzi was a 1st and 4th
The Caps got Smith, a 1st, 2nd and 3rd for Orlov and Hathaway.
Leafs gave up Abramov and a 1st and 2nd basically for O'Reilly and Acciari
In comparison, Matthews has one year left on his deal and people are saying stuff like Kempe and Roy for a top 10 player in the League. I don't get it. Where does this come from?
I can't imagine any team that will actually trade for Matthews does it without the intention of keeping him after this season, so they will have an idea of what number will be required to do so and be willing to pay it. Are people suggesting the Leafs would actually trade him for peanuts because they fear losing him? I can't think of a team in NHL history that traded a top 10 player for peanuts out of fear of losing him. Nevermind a team wanting to contend doing it.
I am open to being convinced otherwise.
1.) 16 May 2023 19:08:29
I've been kind of on the opposite side of this lol. I keep wondering why people think you can get Cooly, a top 10 pick, plus multiple prospects for Mathews.
Timo was an RFA. Regardless of QO it does make him more valuable to most teams than a rental. That said, he isn't a Hart winning 60 goal scorer.
The closest comparison to Mathews I have off the top of my head is Karlsson when he was traded to SJ. A couple decent prospects, an A+ prospect in Norris and (what was supposed to be) a late first. I don't see how much more teams would pay for a rental.
2.) 16 May 2023 19:09:13
If Matthews does sign extension this summer it does shoot down his value in terms of what the leafs get back in a trade but in almost any trade the leafs would be taking back a top 6 player a decent cap hit just to make the money work.
3.) 16 May 2023 22:25:31
Sorry guys, nothing to convince me yet. Lol
Here's why.
LL. Meier was an RFA, but also a year older than Matthews. The QO matters because if the Devil's don't qualify him at $10M, he walks as a UFA. Essentially becoming a TDL rental. He can also refuse any offer they give so that he can just take the $10M qualifting if they qualify him and leave in a year. How does that make him more valuable?
Karlsson had no contract, but still got a 1st, 2nd, two conditional picks, Norris (a 1st round pick), Tierney, DeMelo and Balcers.
Matthews has a whole year left on his deal. It used to be getting a guy at the TDL was a rental. When did the narrative changed to a whole year left on a contract is a rental?
Goat. Why does his value drop if he signs an extension? It should go up since the acquiring team would have him under contract for years to come.
4.) 17 May 2023 02:12:23
@RLF I'm not sure where Mathews value would lie and I would never trade him for Kempe and Roy, but I also can't wrap my head around what some see his value as.
The whole RFA thing with a high QO really doesn't seem to hurt value for some reason. Tkatchuk also dictated where he wanted to go and brought back a good return.
Where do you see his value? Of the teams that would want Mathews, they would all want to sign him longterm. That leaves a team on the cusp of contention, with 12+ in cap space. If it were a sign and trade with 40% retention for one year (should a retool be called) I can see a monumental return. Otherwise, I don't see much more than 2 firsts and a good prospect, while sending back a very bad contract.
5.) 17 May 2023 14:58:29
LL.
Matthews value is quite high imo, but nailing it down is so subjective based on how high any picks are and what players would be coming back.
Some have said Matthews for the 2nd overall. I don't think Anaheim does it. I would think they want both Matthews and Fantilli. So I had suggested something like (iirc) Terry, Gaucher, Zelleweger, 2023 2nd, 2024 1st unprotected. It was something like that anyway. That's a top 6 youngish winger in need of a new contract but RFA, A high end big C prospect, A higher end point producing D prospect, the 33rd overall pick this year and an unprotected 1st next year. That should appeal to both teams.
Anaheim will have Matthews + Fantilli, Zegras, MacTavish etc and I cannot see them trading any of those to get Matthews as then they have to rebuild around Matthews because they traded their good players to get him. Makes no sense to me.
Leafs get a top 6 winger same age as Matthews. A future big physical top 6 projected C. A future top 4 projected point producing D. 33rd pick this year and a 1st next year and a ton of cap space to add to the existing team, plus they could flip some of these assets for help now with all the cap space.
On the other hand if the Leafs wanted the 2nd overall pick, Anaheim may say no or even if they said yes, there won't be all those other adds. I'm sure you agree.
So, it is not just how many 1sts+, it is how well the return fits into the Leafs plans and how high the value of picks/ players. To think the Leafs will go into a rebuild is highly unlikely imo. They will continue to try and win now is most likely, so any trade will have that in mind.
6.) 17 May 2023 15:04:07
@LL. Sorry forgot I also wanted to comment on your Meier and Tkachuk insight. I am not disagreeing with you. What I don't understand is the thought that those two situations didn't hurt Meier's and Tkachuk's value, but Matthews having a year left on his deal hurts his value. I don't see much of a difference between the situations to suggest somehow those two retain value and Matthews doesn't.
7.) 17 May 2023 19:22:10
@RLF I don't see a rebuild coming either unless Mathews, Marner and Nylander all made it clear they would not resign and all needed to be moved.
I also don't see Fantilli for Mathews as something ANA does. Mathews would have to either go to a contender with retention or be sent to a team that's on the cusp of contention, who signs him for 8 years immediately. I'm not sure many teams would be interested in this, which also drives his value down a bit. Off the top of my head Detroit is one of the teams that makes sense.
I'm not even sure your Anaheim trade is something they're interested in. Signing JT was a gamble most rebuilding teams wouldn't make. They know they need more pieces than just a one.
Meier is different than Tkatchuk as he was a rental that also expires an RFA. Tkatchuk was essentially a 1 year deal, same as Mathews is currently.
8.) 18 May 2023 13:20:51
@LL. We will have to agree to disagree on where Matthews may go or who would want him. I would think Matthews being only 25 would be interested in Anaheim and vice versa.
If my trade prop happened, Upfront they have Matthews, Zegras, MacT, along with some good vets in Henrique, Silverberg and Strome and youngish in Comtois, Jones etc. On the backend they have Fowler, Drysdale, LaCombe, Mintyukov and Helleson. Gibson in net. On top of that, they would still have $28M in cap space to sign RFA's and fill out the roster. It would mostly depend on what they work out with Zegras and Drysdale since Terry would be a Leaf. They will get Fantilli in the draft and Perrault may also be ready to make the jump next season. They have lots of picks to make deals. It would be Matthews team (No JT's team or Marner's or Rielly's etc) and I think that would appeal to him.
I am still lost on your logic of Meier. lol
If he only takes the qualifying at $10M, he becomes a 1 year "rental" + last deadline. Not much difference than Matthews. As for Tkachuk, his contract had already expired and he was an RFA when traded. Fla signed him immediately to 8X$9.5M. He didn't have a year left on his deal. Also signed for less than what Meier would make on his QO. My point was, if those two received really good to excellent packages, so should Matthews.
9.) 18 May 2023 21:02:32
@RLF Meier would be considered a rental+ at the time of his trade, was what I was getting at. He was traded for a cup run, while expiring RFA.
Mathew Tkatchuk seems like the closest -revent- comparable. He fetched Hubby and Weegar, both as UFA's. I can see something like that happening, if both teams have a deal for extended contracts in place.
28 May 2023 13:12:59
@Tags. It didn't.
28 May 2023 13:11:56
@LL. I had forgotten about that part. It was like, keep quiet about what happened here and I will try and get you a job somewhere else.
@Tags. Very true. It is part of the qualities I meant, but good to point out.
28 May 2023 02:37:52
@DM. As for Bowman, this is the guy who knew about his video coach sexually assaulting a player and he helped keep it quiet and dismissed him without reporting it or having him charged. This is the guy you want as the Leafs GM.
You have issues with Treliving and not Bowman. You and I have very different standards on how to evaluate and qualities wanted in a GM.
28 May 2023 02:27:43
@David Mackin. So, Nylander has one year left on his contract and you feel he is worth the 16th overall pick, Zary, Pelletier, Wolf, Kuznetsov and Ciona for an example.
I've been known to put a few back and then post, but man, you are the king.
27 May 2023 12:46:18
If taking salaries into account, I can't see in any world that Marner is 2X better than Lindholm.
Interesting enough I had recently posted the same two Calgary players + a prospect for Matthews. I don't think the Flames would trade Lindholm and Andersson for Marner.
27 May 2023 15:00:03
It's an interesting take Randy. I'm pretty sure if Dubas had not done a presser, this would have worked out differently. Although most GM's do a presser and this type of thing doesn't happen.
It was also 3 days after the loss. He had time to compose himself and plan what he would say. He could have declined to do one and wait until a deal was in place, which according to Shanny, that is what he recommended. I think the main thing here is, why did he insist on doing one?
And let's remember that it was Dubas who started his presser, without a question from reporters, talking about his own situation. He talked about how he was going to have discussions with Shanny and ownership and then more importantly needs to talk to his family as the year was tough on them and they will decide together what to do from here. He hinted he may not be back. He said he wanted to get that out of the way before taking questions. No one had even asked him a question yet. It was an odd way to start a presser. He threw it out there without being prompted to talk about it. He didn't seem too emotional at this point.
Through questions. He then talked about getting ready for the draft. He talks about the players and can they get it done. He talks about Keefe. Except for his opening remarks, all seems normal.
Then the game changer, which was all set up by Dubas's opening remarks. Chris Johnson asks him "Do you still have it in you, do you want to be here, do you want to still run the Maple Leafs? " Odd way for Johnson to phrase it because it was like Johnson already knew what Dubas was going to say and it's a question to set up Kyle to say what he said. Johnson could have simply asked "Do you still want to run the Maple Leafs? . But he put in the part about, do you still want to be here and do you still have it in you. Dubas response is what really got this going. This is when he gets emotional.
Which we know he says "He doesn't have it in him to go elsewhere", he's not sure if he will be back without discussing with family first and he also said the reason he couldn't "pop up somewhere else next week" is because he couldn't put his family through that.
I don't think we can take this situation and look at it as "normal". GM's don't typically do what Dubas did. Normally we here they will have to evaluate. If the GM has a new contract needed we here that that is between the agent and upper management/ ownership. We're talking. Typical no hot take answers.
Not to get into too much of what I do for a living because this site isn't the place for that. All I can say is, Dubas presser has a stench to it. Something isn't right here. This has a very planned feel to it. Especially considering everything that has happened since (apparent ask for more money/ possible control, meeting with Pitt about a job, using Matthews agency to represent him) . There is just too much wrong here. Dubas is too smart to make all these statements and mistakes. It just wreaks of disingenuousness.
27 May 2023 03:31:22
@LL. As I said, it's what I heard but I can't confirm it. It would make sense though that other player agents complained since it's against the rules. I'm sure they all would like a back door line directly to the GM.
Since Dubas was a player agent in his younger years, he would know better than to do this. Not sure how he figured no one would notice. Like I've said numerous times, he is way too close to his players. It's like he created a frat house with his young stars.
26 May 2023 22:05:53
So what if Dubas signs somewhere else and Matthews stalls until July 1st passes and then says he wants a trade, but will only except being traded to where Dubas signed. lol
I heard that it was other player agent (s) that complained. Don't know if it is true.
26 May 2023 22:02:52
@ well I think Tkachuk wanting to leave makes the return even more impressive. Imo
Tkachuk went to the press saying he wouldn't sign long term there. He also had only so many teams he would agree to sign with, so Treliving did a great job as far as I'm concerned.
Moving Marner and/ or Matthews before July 1st means they can trade them to the highest bidder. Seems easier to get a good return.
26 May 2023 12:32:37
@Loxley. Shero is an interesting name. Obviously lots of experience and has won it all. He is with Minny as an advisor. He would have to be given a lot of credit for building NJ into what they are now. He built a lot of the young base of that team, although Fitzgerald is the guy who started to swing a bit for the fences with signings and I believe he did the Marino trade as well.
They could do worse than Shero. imo
Although I mentioned Treliving on here before the media started all this and he would be my choice. I thought he got a great return for Tkachuk and he wasn't afraid to make the move when Tkachuk said he won't sign there long term. Hubi's performance is not on Treliving. Although, the horrible contract is. In some ways that bad contract could be a plus for the Leafs as he is unlikely to make the same mistake twice.