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05 Jul 2023 20:41:16
TO WPG : Samsonov Rights
Nylander $6,962,366
To TOR : Hellybuck
Unless of course 10 team m-ntc includes WPG from Nylander then this is an issue that would need resolving or teh leafs would need to find a different pacskge of young players or picks and or both ...
like this maybe
Samsonov rights
Roberston
Niemela
Minten
McMann or any combo of 3 of 4 of them plus a pick depending on which 3 they take..
as it looks like the jets want picks and prospects
1.) 05 Jul 2023 21:44:44
I'm really not sure where Nylander would refuse to go.
Only a handful of teams would ever be willing to pay a 28yo with his skillset 10x8yrs that expires at 36 years old. Imo, he takes what he can get.
I really like this trade as well.
2.) 05 Jul 2023 22:11:07
Nylander has to be part of it for the money to work. I proposed the exact same trade earlier.
3.) 05 Jul 2023 22:46:10
This Hellebuyck obsession is too much. He's 30. Sure, he has been a very good regular season goalie. He has lead his team to 5 playoff appearances in 7 seasons. Pretty good. But the playoffs are something different. He has lead his team past the first round twice, kinda. His first playoff appearance he took them on a long run and hasn't done it since. The shortened 2020-21 season where they beat the Oilers in 4 straight and then lost to the Canadiens in 4 straight is his next best playoff run. 3 out of his 5 playoffs he has had under a .920sv%. Twice his goals against has been above 3.00, including last season where he had a dismal 3.44GAA and .886sv%. He has started 40 playoff games and won 17 of them. That's simply not good and it's not like the Jets were horrible teams.
This is the guy that is going to lead the Leafs to a Cup and give up whatever necessary to get him and give him whatever he wants to re-sign him? Really? A guy who is now 30 years old and is coming off a horrible playoffs and has had 1 dominate playoff run in his career.
Beyond that, Nylander is the Leafs best trade chip and if their D stays as it is, the goalie won't really matter. They need to improve the D first. You trade Nylander for a goalie with a $6.17M cap hit, how are you know going to improve the D with no cap space? Sure, move Murray, but that leaves them with only about $2.5M if using Muzzin's LTIR, to improve the D and they also lost a 40 goal scorer they have no money left to replace and received no young talent in return to develop. If the Leafs trade prospects and picks for Hellebuyck, now they have to trade Nylander for prospects and picks because they won't have any cap space to add a top 4 D in return. Then of course next year, in order to keep Hellebuyck the Leafs will need to give him at least $7.5-$8M with term to a 31 year old goalie.
Alternately, Samsonov is only 26 and should come in around 1/ 2 Hellbuyck's cap hit and then if they trade Nylander to improve the D, which that D will likely have a lower cap hit then Willy and they will likely get a + with him, the Leafs have cap space left to add upfront if needed especially after they move Murray.
When the team is really good, the goalie just needs to be good, not necessarily great. Is Adin Hill a great goalie? Is Keumper a great goalie? Binnington had one good run and now he struggles big time. That's just recently on SC winners. The goalie just needs to catch fire at the right time.
4.) 05 Jul 2023 23:28:19
RLF convinced me.
Let's go get a D. Screw Hell Boy.
5.) 06 Jul 2023 00:00:13
1) Definitely Winnipeg is on Nylander’s 10 team no trade list.
2) Hellebuyck wants a $9 - $9.5 x 7 extension.
Paying goaltenders that kind of money is bad management.
3) In 2022 - 2023
Samsonov: .919 SV%, 2.33 GAA
Hellebuyck: .920 SV%, 2.49 GAA
4) Samsonov is 26
Hellebuyck is 30
So why trade a goaltender that you can resign at $4 for a goaltender that is making $6 this year and wants $9+ for another 7 years when their numbers are virtually identical.
6.) 06 Jul 2023 01:34:34
I am with RLF and LL on this. at first the idea of heelebuyck sounds awesome. but then you look at our D and think we need another defensive style player to pair with Rielly. then the fact that we lose the 40 goals. and there is no way to replace either cause of the cap. and no garrantees that we can sign Helle for a decent price. i for one don't wanna pay him 10mil. and i don't wanna lose the assets we'd get for trading Willy. no. this is not the trade we need. i'll take my chances with Samsonov and an improved D.
7.) 06 Jul 2023 01:35:33
Identical you say one has played for 8 seasons averaging 56 games one has played 4 averaging less than 30 so your comparison is deeply deeply deeply flawed.
8.) 06 Jul 2023 01:38:05
You go with the better goalie NOW . That’s hellybuck. You leaf fans are alike. Worried about the future. Isn’t the idea to win a cup. Won a cup now worry about the future in the future. The now is HELLYBUCK. The future who cares. Go all in or go home. Matthews Marner won’t be young forever tavares is proof of that.
9.) 06 Jul 2023 02:28:48
Sorokin set the market. Hellybuck will get 7 million or so.
10.) 06 Jul 2023 02:41:52
How many different profiles are you going to make up for yourself to make it look like there are others who agree?
11.) 06 Jul 2023 18:37:28
RLF. You suggest this multiple profile thing. Sounds like you’ve mastered the concept. Who has time for such nonsense like really. Just because people disagree with you and agree with others you don’t need to get bitter. This whole site is for friendly banter can’t handle that well that’s a you problem and maybe this isn’t the site for you.
12.) 06 Jul 2023 20:08:04
Willthyeverwinit.
lol Bitter? lol I have been on here for years, I think myself and others have good banter on here newbie.
Curious. How did you know I was referring to you? Seems like you see the similarities of your profile with another profile as well.
13.) 06 Jul 2023 23:54:42
Because you said it irrigation after the post.
14.) 06 Jul 2023 23:55:50
Yes RLF. People actually agree with others on here. Amazing isn’t it.
15.) 06 Jul 2023 23:56:48
So your many years on here gives you a stays or something, gives you the right to be a dick when others disagree
Do better.
16.) 07 Jul 2023 00:14:43
3 more posts from you just to make sure you get in one more word. Yea, I'm the bitter one and the one who has difficulty with those who disagree with me (but not you) . lol.
17.) 07 Jul 2023 03:49:01
Hang on guys. i'm gonna get some popcorn. this war of words is getting good. LOL.
05 Jul 2023 00:47:36
Why are all the posts and trade proposals missing the obvious needs for this team. Goaltending is the number thing missing. End of discussion. with a sub section on the need to upgrade the toughnees on the defence.
This team can not move forward wth Woll and Murray.
Woll is way to in experienced to carry this team to a cup or even to a final. Murray well I'm sure if you've followed this team you know.
Samonov played exceptionally well but he has some holes in his games that at times can be pretty glaring. Now with he and Woll I think they could compliment eachother nicely. Problem is the $$$$ . Leafs sat back and let the comparable goalies sign first and now have to pay up. Aiden Hill 2 yr 4.9M per. Samsonov will be in the ballpark.
No matter they have no money once again. Went all in on forwards or ofeensive defenceman. We've seen this before with dunbass dubas. It didnt work then wont work now. this isn't the 80's oilers
25 goalies have been signed and the leafs have done squat at the most important position on the ice and the one position they are desperate to solidify.
Only real choice left is Hellybuck. Gonna cost you Nylander to start but who cares You backed yourselves into a corner got no choice.
1.) 05 Jul 2023 05:20:21
Hellebuyck is looking for a $9 - $9.5 - 7 year extension.
That’s way too much to commit to a goaltender.
Goaltenders games tend to ebb and flow from year to year.
Look at Bobrovsky last year and early this year compared to his performance in the playoffs.
2022 - 2023
Samsonov : .919 SV%, 2.33 GAA
Hellebuyck: .920 SV%, 2.49 GAA
Samsonov can probably be extended for around $4 - &4.5 about half what it would cost to extend Hellebuyck.
Hellebuyck is 30 years old
Samsonov is 26 and will continue to improve.
Rather stick with what we have.
2.) 05 Jul 2023 12:16:30
Im with ya @Waterbuffalo49
Samsonov will get signed. Murray will be gone.
3.) 05 Jul 2023 15:39:29
Samsonov has been qualified. No reason to think he won't get signed.
4.) 05 Jul 2023 20:12:35
how narrow minded can a group be. Sammy has had literally one good season hes played now 4 seaons in the NHL 2 that hes played more than 40 goames and the 1st one was abysmal with Washington . Take away Helly rookie season only one season has he played less than 56 games., a workhorse and dam good sporting a 2.66 gaa and .916 in 8 season avg game played per seaon 55.6 and that takes in to account his rookie season where he played 26 games. in 8 season no less. Sammy 4 seasons 1/ 4 the games played 2.65 gaa .908 comparable sure but 1/ 4 games most played in any season 44. thers simply no comarison in the reg season PLayoffs lets go there cuz that's whre it matters most right, helly 2.58 .916 sammy 3.06 .902. helly 40 gp sammy 16 both losing records helly 17-23 and sammy 5-10 . who cares the dolalr amount wanna win now you pay him. trade the contract later buy him out later WIN NOW PAY NOW. TRADE BUY OUT PLAYERS NOW. for anyone to think or say that you can win without the best player on the ice being the goalie is just not in tune wit hockey. look waht killed most teams in the playoffs and what won most teams in the playoffs, GOALTENDING.
5.) 05 Jul 2023 22:57:14
@1967. How many Cups has Hellebuyck won? Zero. How many good playoff runs has he had? One, which was his first playoffs. He has not been good in the playoffs. You think 17 wins in 40 playoff games is good and deserves do whatever to acquire and pay whatever to keep? Seems like someone has bought into the Hell-boy hype.
I'd rather they chase Saros than Hellbuyck and Saros has only 3 playoff wins.
6.) 06 Jul 2023 01:46:23
Only one goalie of the 60 + wins the cup a year so to ask how many has HELLYBUCK has won is a bit ridiculous. Why didn’t you ask about the Vezina you know for best goalie that he has won and that he’s been nominated I think twice.
Worry about the now forget the future. The window is closing fast Tavares every month gets older and slower Gio has already lost it. Etc etc. HELLYBUCK 49 games experience is a hell of a lot better than any of Woll Samsonov Saros Demko.
7.) 06 Jul 2023 02:45:56
No more ridiculous than insisting that a goalie that has not got it done will be the answer, so give up good assets while creating other holes in the lineup, a worse cap situation and deplete the prospect and draft pool even more.
Habs fan by any chance?
8.) 06 Jul 2023 12:11:32
Yes RLF worry aout the prospect pool the future the tomorrow THIS IS WHY WITH YOUR MINDsET they will never win alway to gun shy to go for it . win big and lose big
boston Tampa and just aboit every other team in the east are weaker The canes and maybe the rangers are the competiton to the finals. other than the bubble this is the best chance to get to the last dance. but nope you wanna worry about the prospect. this team has some great assets doesnt work out trade them for those prosepcts you speak of
what good assests? Nylander? hes as good as gone who else? what defender is so good on this team that a tough nosed d man playing 20 minutes a night can not replace.
What goalie on this team is so irreplaceable to get a proven winner like a Hellybuck you know the cezona winner and 2 time nominee 6 time 60+ game played with a better just as good or better stats the Samsanov who has played 1/ 4 of the games .
WHO WHO WHO is so irreplaaceable
I'll wait.
9.) 06 Jul 2023 21:16:21
@1967. I already stated what I am referring to. Not enough cap space to just move Willy and Murray and bring in a top 4 and Hellebuyck, so it makes no sense to throw assets at something that can't happen.
None of the teams that have won the Cup felt they needed to or did trade for a $6+M goalie either. Context counts.
Hope you didn't wait to long.
10.) 06 Jul 2023 21:44:52
1967.
Instead of claiming you know how to build a winning Leafs team, why not just show us how it's done? Put up your Hellebuyck trade and then how you are getting a top4 D as well while staying under the cap.
If you can show me it can be done and the team looks good, you can convince me. Can't be anymore fair than that.
11.) 07 Jul 2023 00:14:30
The Helybuck trade for this season wouldn’t be that unattainable if the leafs dig into their prospect pool seems like that’s what’s wpg wants. Sweeten the pot and get WPG to retain 1/ 2 salary on Helybuck salary
Then that’s only 3 million against the cap not 6 yes still an issue but still have Nylander to dangle for a defenceman. Add in Muzzin and Murray that’s 11 million in savings now it’s looking more promising for this season.
As for next season well that’s the gamble and how you feel about Samsonov vs Helybuck. . Is this not fun. Glad it’s not our decisions
I still wish they had signed out still trade for some meanness on the back end like a Dumba for what cost I know.
12.) 07 Jul 2023 00:23:32
WPG trades Helybuck. 50% retained
Tor. Trades. 2024 3rd (from NyI)
Nick Robertson
Bobby McMann
Toni Horvonen.
13.) 07 Jul 2023 11:31:19
@Plantheparade. I don't think that gets Hellebuyck at 50%.
22 May 2023 18:59:42
TO MTL : NYLANDER 2024-3RD, 2025-5TH
TO TOR: J. ANDERSON 2025 2ND
TO L. A. MATTHEWS AND THAT MTL PICK 2025 2ND TO TOR: KEMPE AND M. ROY
TO CHI: BRODIE AND McGANN
TO TOR: 2023 3RD
TO PHI. T. LILLIGREN, A. STEEVES, N. ROBERTSON
TO TOR:S LAUGHTON, 2024 3RD
UFA SIGNINGS
SCOTT MAYFIELD 4YR 3M PER
RYAN GRAVES 4YR 4.25 PER
L. SCHENN 2 YR 1M PER
SAMSONOV OR TRISTAN JARRY 4 YR 4M PER
SAME FOR BOTH
O'RIELLY 2 YR 2.25M PER
ACCARI 3 YR 1.75M PER
CONNOR BROWN 3YR 3.5M PER
A. BARBASHEV 5 YR 6M PER
M. MARTIN 2 YR 1.75M PER
M. FOLIGINO 3 YR 3M PER
LINES
KEMPE TAVARES MARNER
KNIES BARBESHEV . ANDERSON
S. LAUGHTON R. O’RIELLY C. BROWN MATT MARTIN N. ACCIARI M. FOLIGNO
LAFFERTY JARNKROK
DEFENCE
RIELLY ROY
RYAN GRAVES SCOTT MAYFIELD
J. McCABE SCHENN
TIMMINS
GIORDANO
GOALIES
WOLL
EITHER SAMSONOV R TRISTEN JARRY
MONEY WORKS AND EVEN $$ LEFT OVER TO SIGN SOME OF THESE PLAYERS TO HIGHER CONTRACTS. ONLY THING CONT CONSIDERED IS MUZZIN CONTRACT.
1.) 22 May 2023 20:05:13
Brutal trades for the leafs…. Especially the Matthews one. I mean you are talking about the second best player in the league here.
2.) 22 May 2023 20:40:37
bob YOUR KIDDING RIGHT 2nd best player he just finished 22nd in league scoring Once again did absloutely squat in the playoffs you want to see what a real NHL superstar looks like look no further than Tcachuk currently. Give your head a shake Matthews 2nd best player in the league. It almost can be argued hes not even the 2nd best on the leafs most nights. Where do you get this nonesense.
3.) 22 May 2023 21:51:42
May I have what you’re smoking please?
16 May 2023 00:47:31
rubbishz and Gigglez trade UFA signings proposals.
TO MTL : NYLANDER, 2024 3RD, 2025 5TH
TO TOR: J. ANDERSON, 2025 2ND
TO L. A. : MATTHEWS
TO TOR: KEMPE, M. ROY
TO CHI: BRODIE, B. McMANN, FUTURES,
TO TOR: 2023 3RD
UFA'S
S. MAYFIELD 4 YR X 3M
L. SCHENN 2 YR X 1M
R. O'RIELLY 2 YR X 2.25M
ACCARI 3 YR X 1.75M
EITHER OR
SAMSONOV OR TRISTEN JARRY BOTH SAME CONTRACT 4YR X4M
MORE TO COME. LOL.
I DO HAVE A CALL IN TO MLSE IN HOES OF AN INTERVIEW FOR THE SOON TO BE OPEN GM POSITION WISH ME LUCK.
1.) 16 May 2023 01:37:41
Brodie has been great since he got here. Why give him away?
2.) 16 May 2023 04:29:23
Is this a joke? T. J. Brodie has gradually regressed since joining the Maple Leafs, kind of like the white facial hair of Mark Giordano. Get rid of both Brodie and Giordano.
3.) 16 May 2023 13:57:30
I don't get the Brodie hate. He is a $5M a year D-man which places him in the 2nd pair area cap hit wise. Other than Rielly, what D-man has been better than Brodie? Holl, Gio, Liljegren, McCabe, Timmins, Gustafson? No. Schenn was quite good in a short stint. His skating is an issue, but he is very good positionally which minimizes it.
There is a reason that Leaf D-men all look more capable when paired with Brodie over another D.
4.) 17 May 2023 03:16:43
T. J. Brodie is no good. The entire defence of the Leafs, including Reily have got to go.
15 May 2023 02:51:18
to L. A. kings. A. Matthews
to TOR. Kempe, M. Roy.
1.) 15 May 2023 11:57:40
That is a massive under Gaul for Matthews.
2.) 16 May 2023 01:00:57
yes and no. Kempe great contract. Roy one year away from UFA. rolling the dice on him as he is a UFA at the end of the season . for both the kings and the leafs. This only works if Matthews can agree on an extension. ITS LA. I think other than Toronto as he says he wants to play here . LA would be the next best thing.
1967_REALLY's banter posts with other poster's replies to 1967_REALLY's banter posts
14 Jul 2023 21:25:33
D'Angelo just bought out b the Flyers.. Why not take a chance on very team friendly deal. Let Gio take him under his wing...
1.) 14 Jul 2023 23:38:07
Because he's the worst player in his own end I've ever seen. Just completely useless.
Beyond that, taunting younger players, having a fist fight with his own goalie, he's a cancer. The Flyers wanted him gone so badly, they're buying him out with one year at 5m on his contract, even during a rebuild.
2.) 15 Jul 2023 04:05:05
Maybe we can entice Sean Avery to come out of retirement as well. lol
No to D'Angelo.
3.) 15 Jul 2023 15:44:38
Yeah hard pass.
4.) 16 Jul 2023 02:07:02
leafslife worst player in his own end really 2 years ago in Carlina plus 30. Hmmm and yes last year -27 on a piss poor team so to go out there and to say worst . You do watch the leafs right? You ahve seen Justin Holl right? its no coincidence teams dump the puck into his corner when hes on the ice constantly.
Ok so the guy is a nut job just thought on a league minimum lets face it that's all they can afford and with a guy like Gio babysitting him its worth a shot dont work out release him. Sadly hed become the toughest d man on the team .
5.) 16 Jul 2023 02:46:19
@1967 Justin Holl is better in his own end than D'Angelo. D'Angelo got to play in one of the best defensive systems going with some great defensive D-men.
I wouldn't put much stock in Canes +- even just looking at their goalies, save pct always gets better in Carolina.
6.) 24 Jul 2023 05:19:21
leafslife--- so are we putting stock in to the fact that a teams success is weighed on their goaltending. Perhaps this shoudl be passed on to the leafs.
06 Jul 2023 03:06:55
Why havee't the leafs made a move to sign Dumba..
116 blocked shots 104 hits.. Tough as nails 21 Min a night right handed d man
has made 38m is salary .. 29 years old.. 1 year contract much like Domi ?
I think its going to happen.. It'll help the D for sure
1.) 06 Jul 2023 03:18:25
Elliott Freidman was reporting that Tree reached out, but couldn't make the cap work.
2.) 06 Jul 2023 03:42:09
If Elliott says something believe the opposite. Hes all but signed.
3.) 06 Jul 2023 07:12:19
@1967 lol. I tend to believe that one. Dunba is approaching 30. He needs a 5-8 year deal now, before teams refuse to sign him to one.
4.) 06 Jul 2023 12:13:25
Only way dumbs joins a contender is if he signs a sweetheart one year deal leafs could do that depending on what happens with willy.
23 Jul 2023 13:52:02
When you add McCabe in your top 4 then claim that top 4 to be the best top 4 league wide. I can guarantee you that top 4 is NOT the best top 4 league wid.
23 Jul 2023 13:49:08
IF Matthews was extended before this proposed trade you can guarentee that contract will have a full NMC in it.
23 Jul 2023 13:47:40
loxley1972 Even with Brodie who is going to play D for the leafs?
22 Jul 2023 23:12:49
you got rid of Jarnkrok $$ but I missed where you sent him . Did I miss something.
18 Jul 2023 03:51:48
typical delusional leafs fans.
24 Jul 2023 05:19:21
leafslife--- so are we putting stock in to the fact that a teams success is weighed on their goaltending. Perhaps this shoudl be passed on to the leafs.
24 Jul 2023 05:16:49
Leafs best be careful buying out Murray. After this decision today on Samsonov He just be asking for a trade. I know I would. See how well you do with Murray and Woll as your two goalies taking you the the CUP. Well I mean Woll and whoever is playing for the Marlies. we all know Murray will be hurt.
24 Jul 2023 05:12:58
RLF. Everything in the NHL salary structure is based on other players salaries. so How can Murray earnning 4.6M not have everything to do the slap in the face to Sammy. ITs all about comparisons. By th very fact they offered him 2.4 M showed just how much they didnt care about keeping him in th organization. They offered him almost less than 1/ 2 of what Murray was being paid by them not to play.
its funny u mention the cup and playoffs. Yet the very being of the core 4 and their salaries have everything to do with regular season successes and zero playoff success and you think it still fair market value to offer these core 4 clowns over 10M to play for the leafs with 0 playoff success.
Hill won a cup that's is a fact. What is also a fact is that he faced less shots on avg than any other goalie with more than 10 starts. he also played in 16 games of the 22. all in the final 3 rounds. Not to mention playing in front of arguably the best defenc in the league during the playoffs. But yes he has his ring.
Leafs are screwed against the cap because of the core 4 and Dubas and Now players like Samsonov and other who have acually had to leave like Hyman because there was no money as teh "core 4" took it all is why they are screwed against the cap. No other reason. Its not about what I think the leafs should or shouldn't have paid him its about his worth based on his stats as that's how the nhl bases their salaries on AND a top 10 goalie getting a 1 year deal which put hims at 27-29 on the pay scale at the start of the 2023-24 season is a joke. Who wants to come to an organization who treats their players who actually perform like he did last year for this team with such disgust. Then lets bring in a Klingberg and pay him 4M to be a 2nd or 3rd pairing D man.
Meanwhile others already making 10's of millions crying for more and wanting to be the highest paid player in the league are not even the highes point getter on his own team. But that's who you want to reward. You'd fit right in beside shanny and th MLSE boys and girls club. Pay for the name on the back and that's it. Its not hard to see why this team fails year after year. They reward mediocrity and penalize actual success.
24 Jul 2023 04:49:35
loxley u missed the point entirely . NHL and any other sport is not the real world so remove yourslef from that right away. Doubling your salary or not means rubbish. Its about comparables. Comparable is Aiden Hill look at the stats. Regular seasons almost identical. Hill has a cup Sammy doesnt. Hill had an amazing d core Sammy never will . Remove that fact still remains. HIll has the cup so is the cup worth 1.45M in a salary. Hmmmmm NOPE. Look at Sammy STATS the other way to determine the pay of a player hes gonna be the 27-29th highest paid goaile in th league this year yet he came off a season in whuch he was by all stats REGULAR SEASON as that is what they are paid fpr as the Playoffs there is no pay. He was a top 10 goalie in almost very stat. so how again was he not cheated based on the very system that the teams themselves have been paying to players since the inception of salary.
24 Jul 2023 02:17:52
Goat2.0 Havent they essentially done this for the past 8 years or so done nothing to upgrade defence and rely on a goalie to stand on his head until burn out which happens right around play off time and then rely on a forward group that lights up the NHL in the regular season but then disappears in the playoffs. Yeah this formula has and wil not work. Not addressing the glaring holes on defence will not help this team win the cup.